Rifle Recommendations?

[FortRock]

I just received a Gamo Whisper Fusion Pro in .177. Supposedly "89.5% more quiet." This thing isn't more quiet than jack....As loud as a .22lr. However.....great trigger and it is adjustable, accurate, nice 3x9 scope with front adjustable objective. So much for stealth. My Gamo Big Cat is more quiet. It is plenty accurate and the trigger smoothed out after about 400 shots.

 

[adidasguy]

I don't know for sure about the Trail. I do have the Maurader. Extremely silent. You can hear a click of the trigger. Then a plink of the pellet hitting the steel pellet trap/target. You can't hear it. The faint click of the trigger is the loudest sound. The Maurader in .22 can handle critters. I would guess the Trail is equally as good at saying good bye to pesky varmints.

 

[BoringCruffler]

What weight pellet are you using? The lighter pellets will all be supersonic in that gun, and cause it to be 'just as loud as a .22lr'. Try it with something like the Beeman Silver Arrow or Crossman Accupel-H if you're looking for stealth. It can make a huge difference, and in most cases you'll actually have more energy on target even thought the velocity is a bit lower.

 

[FortRock]

It was Gamo Master Point in 7.87 gr. I will try your recommendations. Thanks.

 

[ADC]

I had a Stoeger .177 break barrel after quite a bit of shooting it was getting less accurate, after checking it out I found that the barrel was getting bent the more loaded it and shot it. Junked it and bought a Weihrauch hw97 love it what a shooter

 

[childishthing]

I had a Benjamin Trail in 22.
it shot 100-150fps slower than advertised had a crappy trigger and wasn't all that accurate.
out of the 6 different pellets I tried the only ones that did ok were the JSB 16gr.
they would hold 1.5" five shot group at 20 yards at 700fps at the muzzle.

hope this helps

I'd like to weigh in here. Pretty much ALL spring/pump* air rifles shoot slower than rated because of the way advertising is regarding FPS & Quality. You do not need super high fps for hunting OR target shooting. And if you're serious about accuracy, 1000+ fps rifles can be an absolute nightmare to shoot at long distances unless you're shooting a heavier caliber air rifle. I have a very accurate 15 year old Daisy BB gun that barely does 200fps, but still manages to knock down tin cans from across my back yard (35yds) just fine. But would I use it to hunt? Absolutely not.

What's more important to know is "what is the difference between advertised fps and actual?", and "is that within the parameters of what you're looking to do with the rifle?" With that knowledge, you can determine if the rifle will still suit your needs. To me, energy is more important than speed because whenever I'm not practicing, I'm shooting squirrels, rabbits, and birds.

The Benjamin is rated at up to 950fps with ALLOY PELLETS, and up to 800fps with standard pellets (rated with 14.3gr). It sounds like ar-don read the box, but not the small print. 700fps with a 16gr pellet sounds like the rifle is performing just fine. I've read that most people get closer to 750fps, which would give you well over 17ft/lbs of energy using a 14.3gr pellet. To give you an idea, it takes about 5ft/lbs of energy to kill a squirrel or rabbit if hit in the head, heart, or spine.

The trigger is a hot topic for a lot of people, and a lot of people have replaced it with a GTX GenII trigger which costs under $40. I personally have a Benjamin Trail NP in .22 and did not replace the trigger. It takes less than a day to get used to if you're an experienced shooter, it's easy to stage, and pulls consistently. By the time you break in your rifle (100-200 shots), you should be used to the trigger (the trigger is adjustable also). BTW, that brings up another thing... DO NOT try to sight in the rifle before it's broken in, it will make your head spin with frustration... I learned from others experiences, and it saved me some grief. I'd recommend shooting half a tin of lead before you even set up a target.

Summary: The Benjamin is a great entry-level air rifle for someone who wants to get serious about shooting. I personally prefer Crosman Premier Dome (no surprise from a Crosman gun) and consistently shoot a 1/2" group at 25 yards in the prone position without a benchrest. I will add that I didn't use the scope that normally comes with the package. The CenterPoint 3-9x scope is fine, and better than most package scopes, but the one I purchased had been damaged in shipping so the store discounted my purchase and let me buy another scope with the difference. To replace it, I got another Centerpoint, but the 4-16x model.

Please note that if you get this, or any other "spring" air rifle please know that there is a learning curve to simply holding and firing them. Learning to not interfere with the recoil will take some time. Happy shooting!


*I'm not so much talking about high end PCP guns, although they too get their share of advertisement hype in other areas.

 

[etrain16]

Well, to update everyone on my original post, I did a lot of research on various makes and models. I eventually narrowed it down to about 5 including models by Benjamin, Hatsan and Umarex. Comparing power, reliability, accuracy, stock trigger, weight and looks, I ended up going with:



The Hatsan 125 Sniper in .22 cal with Nitro Piston. This was a hard choice to make as I really liked the Benjamin models. But Hatsan won out for a couple of reasons: the stock trigger got great reviews from owners, unlike the Benjamin. The Hatsan comes with adjustable sights right on the rifle, the Benjamin does not. Just those two items alone were a big factor for me. I am not a hunter, so having to rely on a scope for all shots just didn't appeal to me. And having to go right out and buy a $70+ trigger replacement kit for the Benjamin due to the complaints from almost everyone that the stock trigger was garbage, was enough to push me to the Hatsan.

I've had a chance to shoot it a bit and I have to say that, while this is a beast of a gun (big and heavy), it shoots very well. It's not as hard to cock as some folks had said in reviews, I find it's not that difficult at all. It comes with a really cheap bipod (garbage) as well as a cheap scope - I don't plan on using either, but there was no option to get the rifle without them. I also have to say it's relatively quiet. It makes less noise than my old 760 Pumpmaster .177, which is surprising. This allows me to shoot it in my backyard without scarring the neighbors.

All in all, I'm really pleased with the Hatsan 125 Sniper. Thanks to all who weighed in with your comments and recommendations. It is appreciated.

 

[CounterOfBeans]

So I'm just cutting my teeth on this air rifle biz really. And I'm curious. What's the highest reasonable expectation one can have for accurate effective range on a .22 cal gun. I went to the Pyramid Air site and clicked on the 1250-1500 fps category thinking this would be the most likely way to find guns with the longest range. But I still can't find any references to what ranges to expect.

Also, are there any other guns with a rotary magazine like the Benjamin Marauder?

Thanks in advance for any thoughts?

 

[ar-don]

1st off Etrian16 I think you made a good choice.
I think the Hatsan's are a good step above the Chinese made guns.
I have a Hatsan 95 myself. It was less expensive then the Benjamin and shoots a lot better.
Try the crosman/Benjamin 14.3 pellets the seem to work well out of mine .Also any of the JSB or HN pellets in the same weight range.
also which nitro piston does it have,the Vortex or the Crosman.



2nd To CounterofBeans question its not all that easy to answer.
It depends on the gun/pellet combo used.
You can shoot a 14gr pellet out of pcp gun at 1200-1300fps .
the problem is you wont hit anything past 20-30yards.
Pellets become very unstable at or near the sound barrier.
most pellets for best accuracy like to shot at under 1000fps.( read up if you don't believe me )
and yes there are exceptions.
the more power the heavier the pellet needed to preform well.
also pellets have very low ballistic coefficient like .01-.035 for 22cal so the drop very fast
what ranges can you expect?

50-125yards.

you will see a lot of guns give you a fpe rating( foot pound energy )over fps.
The 2 22cal pcp rifles I own put out 30fpe and 34 fpe.
the one that shoots 34fpe will launch a 18.1g pellet at 915fps and hold a .5" group at 50 yards.
at 75 yards the pellets hit 5" low and the groups open up to under an inch
at 100 yards they hit 15" low and I'm lucky to hold an 1.5"group.
you really need to know your range if you want to hit anything.

I have seen others shoot sub 1" groups at 100yards with there guns but that's not common.

The higher powered guns (40-60fpe ) will shoot flatter but they are generally not as accurate.
if you shoot a 21g pellet that has a bc of .03 at 1100fps it will still drop 11.5" from 50 to 100 yards.

also there are a lot of guns with rotary mags.

Air Arms
BSA
Brocock
Cricket
Daystate
Evanix
Fx
Hatsan
Rapid
and im sure there's a couple more i'm forgetting

 

[CounterOfBeans]

To Ar-don,

Wow thanks for that break down and sorry for the delayed response. Thanks also for the list of rotary mag guns. Didn't realize there were so many. So with the guns that can get out to that 125 yard limit, is that the kind of range you can expect from a .22 pellet, or is this for larger caliber pellets? You mention the bad ballistic coefficient of pellets. I've noticed that most pellet shapes are, at glance, very badly shaped for smooth, streamlined piercing of the air, as compared to actual bullets. In addition to air resistance to their small mass, doesn't this twisted pop can shape have a lot to do with their bad performance? Why don't pellet manufacturers make pellets that are shaped to be mini-me's of real bullets? And yes, I know some pellets have a forward protruding tip to them, but proportionally speaking that doesn't improve much on the length/diameter ratio to help slice through the air. That design is still a twisted pop can.

I have to believe that air gun makers have spent a lot of time and energy on research and development in order to optimize the performance of their guns, but is that quintessential hour-glass (twisted pop can) shape of a traditional pellet really the best design they can come up with? I know that by extending the length of the pellet to get that sleek shape, you are adding weight, but you are already telling me that pellets can be found between 14 and 21 grains. Not sure how many grains a standard .22 rimfire round is, but is it simply not physically possible for example to fire the more shapely .22 rimfire round (say, hollowed out in the rear, to reduce weight) from a higher output air gun, in order to get better coefficients/ distance/ accuracy?

I had a nice long chat about air guns with a guy at Sportsman's Warehouse several months ago. Turned out he was the air gun guru in the store. He was telling me that the American air gun market is soooooo behind the curve of the European market. He told me that some European safari hunters are hunting cape buffalo in Africa with .50 cal air guns. Meanwhile, as he was telling me this, I was staring at the air guns he had on the racks believing at first that those were some of the top o' the line guns to be had. After that European safari story, everything on the store's shelves turned into silly little toys by comparison and got me wondering about the questions I have above. What are your thoughts about this shape/coefficient issue?

 

[etrain16]

1st off Etrian16 I think you made a good choice.
I think the Hatsan's are a good step above the Chinese made guns.
I have a Hatsan 95 myself. It was less expensive then the Benjamin and shoots a lot better.
Try the crosman/Benjamin 14.3 pellets the seem to work well out of mine .Also any of the JSB or HN pellets in the same weight range.
also which nitro piston does it have,the Vortex or the Crosman.

Hi Ar-Don - it's the Crosman. Do you ask out of curiosity, or do you have any concerns on one over the other? Anything I should be concerned about?

I'm really enjoying the Hatsan. It shoots really well. I'm still not bothering with a scope - fixed sights were one of the reasons I selected this rifle in the first place. I was a bit concerned about Hatsan since they seem not to be as well known as say the Benjamin or some other models, but I think it's safe to say I'm a Hatsan convert. Thanks for your comment.

 

[ar-don]

Hi Ar-Don - it's the Crosman. Do you ask out of curiosity, or do you have any concerns on one over the other? Anything I should be concerned about?

I'm really enjoying the Hatsan. It shoots really well. I'm still not bothering with a scope - fixed sights were one of the reasons I selected this rifle in the first place. I was a bit concerned about Hatsan since they seem not to be as well known as say the Benjamin or some other models, but I think it's safe to say I'm a Hatsan convert. Thanks for your comment.

No problem just curious.

I did some more shooting with my Hatsan 95 over the weekend.
I put a scope on it ( shooting mine with open sights also ) and did some pellet testing.
What I found is that mine likes 14.66g H&N Field Target Trophy 5.53 head size.
They grouped the best and were the fastest.
Now every gun is different and your results may very but it would be one to try.
The bad thing you would have to order these I don't think any store would have these.

 

[etrain16]

I bought 3 different types of pellets with the rifle to get started with some testing:

* H&N Field Target Trophy 14.66
* JSB Diabolo Exact Jumbo 15.89
* JSB Match Diabolo Exact Jumbo Heavy 18.13

All were based on positive reviews by people that already owned the 125. I've not had a chance to do a bench test, but perhaps in the near future I can try something like that.

Sounds like I may be on target (no pun intended) by adding that H&N into the mix.

 

[Cargon55]

Does anyone have experience with the Umarex Origin in .22?

 

[ron]

Almost 9 year old thread revised? I haven't seen etrain 16 post in a long time.
He use to post quite often. And I have met him a couple of times. Anyone know what happened?

 

[Koda]

Almost 9 year old thread revised? I haven't seen etrain 16 post in a long time.
He use to post quite often. And I have met him a couple of times. Anyone know what happened?

same I'm also curios.

 

[Kruel J]

Me as well. He hasn't logged onto the site in over a year……..

 

[ilikegunspdx]

I'm looking for a new air rifle. I've had pump rifles before, but now I'm looking for something a little more robust. I've been looking around at a variety of models and I've seen some product reviews, but I'd like to throw the question out here. Here's what I'm looking for to give you a framework:

* .22 cal (I've already got a .177)
* Break-barrel type
* Nitro piston
* Decent iron/stock sights (doesn't matter if it comes with a scope or not, though a rail would be nice)
* Wood or composite stock (though I'm not really looking for camo)
* Preferably under 1,200 fps
* Under $300, under $250 is a bonus

I've been looking at Hatsan, Benjamin Trail (I like the style) and some others. Reviews seem to be mixed on all of them. Since I don't currently have $450 + for a Benjamin Marauder, I'll need to take a step down. I won't be hunting with this, but I may occasionally go after some vermin, primarily, it will be for target shooting/plinking.

So, any recommendations? I'd prefer first person recommendations from those who have actually used them.

Thanks!

Don't waste your money on break barrel
it "nitro piston". I've had many and none have been up to my accuracy standards. Get a used PCP gun. There have been some high quality ones for sale one here in your price range or check other places such as yellow, gateway to airguns, etc as airguns are not very prevalent in this forum.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

same I'm also curios.

Damn it I didn't see it was 9 years old. Who the hell revived this necro bullbubblegum!!! There outta be a law!!!!