Rethorical - how come reloading manuals don't list bullet lengths on loads

[pinne65]

I'm thinking that would be pretty useful information in order to get an idea of case volume used and get an idea of seating depth if using a slightly different bullet.

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[DizzyJ]

They do list OAL and sometimes the case fill in % with different powders. Not sure I follow you on what you’d gain by knowing the bullet length itself as the ogive is going to determine seating depth except in regards to magazine fed guns. Sometimes even then.

 

[mm93]

Seems to be an easy solution. Grab your calipers and measure your bullet length. Loading manuals can't do everything for us. Loading ammo requires the person to do some due diligence.

 

[TTSX]

They do list OAL and sometimes the case fill in % with different powders. Not sure I follow you on what you’d gain by knowing the bullet length itself as the ogive is going to determine seating depth except in regards to magazine fed guns. Sometimes even then.

Sometimes it could be helpful if looking for a specific brand's bullet. For example, my M&P 45 will feed PMC 185 grain JHP perfectly but it does not like Hornady 185 grain JHP bullets as they are just a bit longer which is enough for the tip to catch on the barrel and cause a jam. So that gun clearly likes shorter bullets

 

[Koda]

Nosler lists case volume in all their rifle load data.

I do wish bullet makers were better at listing their bullet length as not all bullets are suitable for some magazine fed rifles or standard throated rifles.

this has been a useful bookmark for me.

JBM - Bullet Length List

www.jbmballistics.com

 

[pinne65]

They do list OAL and sometimes the case fill in % with different powders. Not sure I follow you on what you’d gain by knowing the bullet length itself as the ogive is going to determine seating depth except in regards to magazine fed guns. Sometimes even then.

Or, yes they could list the length from the ogive which would make more sense of course. Just something that tells me how far down the case the bullet goes.

Seems to be an easy solution. Grab your calipers and measure your bullet length. Loading manuals can't do everything for us. Loading ammo requires the person to do some due diligence.

But I don't have the exact same bullet as in the manual.


For instance now I'm loading 124gr RN coated using WSF and using Hodgdon load data for leaded RN which lists the COAL 1.169 and that's too long so I need to set it deeper. If I knew that Hodgdon had the bullet 0.21 in the case and I was at 0.18 I'd feel confident setting it .03 deeper.

 

[po18guy]

Sometimes it could be helpful if looking for a specific brand's bullet. For example, my M&P 45 will feed PMC 185 grain JHP perfectly but it does not like Hornady 185 grain JHP bullets as they are just a bit longer which is enough for the tip to catch on the barrel and cause a jam. So that gun clearly likes shorter bullets

Odd. The M&P is not ramped then? Most .45 bullets are manufactured to have a data point at their tip which coincides with the ogive of 230 grain ball rounds.

 

[TTSX]

Odd. The M&P is not ramped then? Most .45 bullets are manufactured to have a data point at their tip which coincides with the ogive of 230 grain ball rounds.

Can't say. I just know when the longer, pointer 185 JHP I got weird jams

 

[po18guy]

Can't say. I just know when the longer, pointer 185 JHP I got weird jams

Feed ramp in the frame AND barrel, like a 1911?

 

[mm93]

Or, yes they could list the length from the ogive which would make more sense of course. Just something that tells me how far down the case the bullet goes.

But I don't have the exact same bullet as in the manual.


For instance now I'm loading 124gr RN coated using WSF and using Hodgdon load data for leaded RN which lists the COAL 1.169 and that's too long so I need to set it deeper. If I knew that Hodgdon had the bullet 0.21 in the case and I was at 0.18 I'd feel confident setting it .03 deeper.

In over 40 years of reloading I've almost never had the exact same bullets as any of my various manuals list. And often not the exact same weight bullets either. So I simply find something close, and begin my load development with it. That often means I'm starting at mid level loads, and trying bullet seating depth. So I don't load up a box of bullets to start with. I first start with an unprimed, empty case and determine how far out my bullet can be seated. Then once I know the OAL, I check to ensure it cycles through the action and wont be any failures to chamber. After that's checked, I then begin by loading charge data based on my loading manuals, or my ballistic program if the cartridge is obsolete and there's no data in any of my old manuals.
There's no magic bullet (no pun intended!) to just grab components, and a manual and throw together the perfect load right away. Sometimes I get lucky and my first loads are the best. Other times I make adjustments to tailor them to my guns. But even if I had bullet length, and a manual that gave me the exact data for the bullet and cartridge, it still may not be that perfect load for my gun. That's why we reload; to make sure our ammo is the best quality, and the most reliable and accurate ammo we can make.

 

[bpyycpyy]

I don't think I'd have enough shelf space for the the number of books required to cover all the bullet lengths that might be selected. Seems the math would be easy enough to use calipers on the bullet and subtract from the OAL of loaded cartridge. Value should be where bullet base sits within the case from the bottom up.

 

[mm93]

Honestly the only time I've even had any interest in case volume was when loading black powder where I want to know how much compression is on the powder. For smokeless powder loads there's always air space, and how much does affect pressure. But that's not a concern to me unless I'm pushing loads up near maximum level, and then I want to know volume. But I try not to push max loads ever, even in my high velocity varmint rifle. I try for the most accurate load, and best accuracy is rarely up at maximum levels.

 

[P7M13]

Loading manuals give ball park values and a safe, careful reloader will work up loads.
Powder energy densities change between lots and over time.
Bullet geometry changes between lots.
Case capacities and wall thickness vary between lots and manufacturers.

Bullet length is listed by its respective manufacturer.

Adding bullet length to load tables would only throw a monkey wrench into an OCD reloader's realm of thought.
I have measured bullet length within lots and found as much as 20 mil length variation. I have also loaded precision rounds using B2O check measurements, and found as much as 0.007" variation in cartridge OAL.

 

[Stomper]

NERDS!! All of you!

 

[Mikej]

In over 40 years of reloading I've almost never had the exact same bullets as any of my various manuals list. And often not the exact same weight bullets either. So I simply find something close, and begin my load development with it. That often means I'm starting at mid level loads, and trying bullet seating depth. So I don't load up a box of bullets to start with. I first start with an unprimed, empty case and determine how far out my bullet can be seated. Then once I know the OAL, I check to ensure it cycles through the action and wont be any failures to chamber. After that's checked, I then begin by loading charge data based on my loading manuals, or my ballistic program if the cartridge is obsolete and there's no data in any of my old manuals.
There's no magic bullet (no pun intended!) to just grab components, and a manual and throw together the perfect load right away. Sometimes I get lucky and my first loads are the best. Other times I make adjustments to tailor them to my guns. But even if I had bullet length, and a manual that gave me the exact data for the bullet and cartridge, it still may not be that perfect load for my gun. That's why we reload; to make sure our ammo is the best quality, and the most reliable and accurate ammo we can make.

Same here. As long as the same basic composition and shape of the bullet in the book is used. Quality jacketed, and lead of similar hardness as in the book should run with no problems. Because of differences of shape of the ogive and length of bearing surface the round should always check that the round will fit the chamber in the gun before making a box full.

I'll disagree on your other statement though. I feel you really DID pun on purpose! Probably sub-consciously.

 

[Spitpatch]

"For smokeless powder loads there's always air space".

Quite frequently (and especially with some cartridges that thrive on a full case of slow powder) there is not.

 

[oremike]

rhetorical question:

1. a question asked in order to create a dramatic effect or to make a point rather than to get an answer.

 

[mm93]

Same here. As long as the same basic composition and shape of the bullet in the book is used. Quality jacketed, and lead of similar hardness as in the book should run with no problems. Because of differences of shape of the ogive and length of bearing surface the round should always check that the round will fit the chamber in the gun before making a box full.

I'll disagree on your other statement though. I feel you really DID pun on purpose! Probably sub-consciously.

I check every round I build to ensure it drops into the chamber of the rifle I plan to shoot it in. But for pistols I check the first round for fit and cycling function, and then load them all.
I shoot a lot of old 1800's single shots in long range events, and nothing more embarrassing than to be on the line ready to shoot and have a cartridge that wont fully chamber and I have to fight or struggle to get the action closed. So I'm a bit picky about those rounds for my old single shot rifles.

 

[titsonritz]

NERDS!! All of you!

Them and their maph.

 

[Stomper]

Them and their maph.

Maphs is hard, the answer is: JELLO!!