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I assume everyone also believes that disrespect to the flag would extend to the wearing of clothing made with a US Flag pattern?

I know people who take offense to that sort of thing, in fact when I was in highschool I had a hat with a US Flag patch on it and got more than a few nasty comments from people who were offended because they thought it was disrespectful. I personally don't believe these types of things (patches or shirts) to be disrespectful to the Flag, but I don't believe that to be the issue of the OP.

This issue is more to do with the proper handling of an actual Flag, not the representation of one. I totally agree with Silver Fox here, and believe that having a reminder to classified posters that this is not appropriate is a great idea. Most people who have done this likely didn't realize that people may take offense, or even didnt know any of the etiquette for handling flags. Having a reminder would save people who did this the trouble of getting a PM about it, and the possible loss of a sale of their item from offended members.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RVTECH View Post
I assume everyone also believes that disrespect to the flag would extend to the wearing of clothing made with a US Flag pattern?
I know people who take offense to that sort of thing, in fact when I was in highschool I had a hat with a US Flag patch on it and got more than a few nasty comments from people who were offended because they thought it was disrespectful. I personally don't believe these types of things (patches or shirts) to be disrespectful to the Flag, but I don't believe that to be the issue of the OP.

This issue is more to do with the proper handling of an actual Flag, not the representation of one. I totally agree with Silver Fox here, and believe that having a reminder to classified posters that this is not appropriate is a great idea. Most people who have done this likely didn't realize that people may take offense, or even didnt know any of the etiquette for handling flags. Having a reminder would save people who did this the trouble of getting a PM about it, and the possible loss of a sale of their item from offended members.

That is what I'm talking about. Differences of opinions and assumptions. No one or group of people IMO has the right to regulate anyone's freedom of expression. They can be concerned, angered, happy, o.k. with it, want to lynch the offender of their personal feelings. Not o.k. with me. If I don't like a person's attitude on an important issue to me, I have nothing to do with them and may even express my opinion on their behavior. I certainly wouldn't tell them that they can't. If a person makes a mistake or unknowingly violates the code of Flag Etiquette a friendly PM to advise him is camaraderie. If the violation is meant as disrespect well he can get his money from someone else, until an out of pocket lesson causes them to change their mind or loose sales. All above board, fair, friendly and doesn't require more rules based on one groups views. That I happen to be in that group, I say it with conviction. We don't need more rules but a concerted effort to enforce them in the only way we can effectively, by the wallet.
rhtwist
 
Only stepping in to point out that the 1st Amendment and the concept of "freedom of expression" only pertain to government regulation of speech.

This is a private board, and it can set whatever rules it wants. Likewise, it does not affect anybody's rights whatsoever when one member criticizes another for his behavior.
 
that is what i'm talking about. Differences of opinions and assumptions. No one or group of people imo has the right to regulate anyone's freedom of expression. They can be concerned, angered, happy, o.k. With it, want to lynch the offender of their personal feelings. Not o.k. With me. If i don't like a person's attitude on an important issue to me, i have nothing to do with them and may even express my opinion on their behavior. I certainly wouldn't tell them that they can't. If a person makes a mistake or unknowingly violates the code of flag etiquette a friendly pm to advise him is camaraderie. If the violation is meant as disrespect well he can get his money from someone else, until an out of pocket lesson causes them to change their mind or loose sales. All above board, fair, friendly and doesn't require more rules based on one groups views. That i happen to be in that group, i say it with conviction. We don't need more rules but a concerted effort to enforce them in the only way we can effectively, by the wallet.
Rhtwist

+1000
 
Only stepping in to point out that the 1st Amendment and the concept of "freedom of expression" only pertain to government regulation of speech.

This is a private board, and it can set whatever rules it wants. Likewise, it does not affect anybody's rights whatsoever when one member criticizes another for his behavior.

Thanks for your explanation, but it has nothing to do with what I'm talking about and that is clear. This board could decide not to allow African Americans or rednecks, perfectly in their right. You are correct. I like it here and I would regret having to leave because of one groups honest, asinine or somewhere in the middle ideas of right and wrong. My way you make an offender of your particular ideas, worthy or not, pay the price of loosing money, in a friendly manner, which I think would be more effective than the forum administration making warnings or rules about what some member honestly feel is right, misguided or exactly correct. People in glass houses shouldn't throw bricks.
IMHO.
rhtwist
 
Thanks for your explanation, but it has nothing to do with what I'm talking about and that is clear. This board could decide not to allow African Americans or rednecks, perfectly in their right. You are correct. I like it here and I would regret having to leave because of one groups honest, asinine or somewhere in the middle ideas of right and wrong. My way you make an offender of your particular ideas, worthy or not, pay the price of loosing money, in a friendly manner, which I think would be more effective than the forum administration making warnings or rules about what some member honestly feel is right, misguided or exactly correct. People in glass houses shouldn't throw bricks.
IMHO.
rhtwist

Look Rhtwist, I got a warning for breaking a rule (I wasn't aware of it until it was shown to me) and at first my knee jerk reaction was... WHATEVER! I was a bit put out.

I then read through the rules, which I should have done when I joined, and accepted the fact I was wrong. The mod was even contrite at having to issue the warning! That was pretty cool of him! I have since kept it in my PMs to remind me to think before I act.

I know there is no rule behind the issue at hand here regarding the proper use of our flag and maybe posting it for all to see wasn't the most subtle form of communication. That there should or shouldn't be a rule pertaining to this?...I don't think so IMO...we could drown in rules before long.

Joey and the mods have a tough enough time monitoring all us nut jobs!..that a member has cited what he believes to be an infraction, in his mind, should merely be regarded as vigilance to keep this site on the up and up! Put your big boy pants on and get over it!

From my glass house to yours, Will:)
 
Hello willseeker,


Joey and the mods have a tough enough time monitoring all us nut jobs!..that a member has cited what he believes to be an infraction, in his mind, should merely be regarded as vigilance to keep this site on the up and up! Put your big boy pants on and get over it!

From my glass house to yours, Will

Well put and I agree, but my big boy pants already on, well let me check, yep.
Take care.
rhtwist
 
rhtwist,

I am not asking the Mods to do anymore work (i.e., create more rules) just a casual reminder that ads with pictures of the American Flag being used as table cloth to display merchandise is really not a good idea with an explanation of why.

No infractions, no suspensions no kicking members off the board.

SF-
 
Rhtwist, I agree there doesn't need to be a rule those are already in place via U.S. Congress, what it boils down to is a simple reminder of respecting our flag in the classified section. Don't have to ban or shun or even warn members, just a simple and casual 'hey that's messed up and here is why...' lime the first two members I caught and they were completly and totally cool about removing the picture depicting the Flag in a disrespectful manner. The OP With the sks caught me on a bad day, was my behavior a little overboard for this forum? By their standards yes. I am just frustraded how complacient our society has become with the flag and of all places a firearms forum? I would expect this kind of behavior out of some left wing nut case forum, but not here. Just saddens me.

Any man worth his salt has a line in the sand that he will not cross this is one of mine.

SF-

That was what I thought, and it was the reason why I deleted those postings in the classified and suggested that this thread be resurrected. :s0155:

It is a good topic to discuss generally rather than calling out a specific individual's ad. And, from my understanding, the OP of the ad mentioned was indeed sent a PM as well.

Perhaps, from where this thread has travelled... THAT is all that is needed (PM's to ad OP's) when this sort of thing is spotted in the future?

Seems to me we all generally don't want even more rules and regulations so maybe just collective vigilance on all our part to point out these things via PM is enough.

Especially since this hasn't really been too much of an issue thus far. :cool:
 
Perhaps, from where this thread has travelled... THAT is all that is needed (PM's to ad OP's) when this sort of thing is spotted in the future?

Seems to me we all generally don't want even more rules and regulations so maybe just collective vigilance on all our part to point out these things via PM is enough.

Especially since this hasn't really been too much of an issue thus far. :cool:

ZeroRing, I guess it boils down to this, just a simple statement that encourages members to politely PM the OP of an ad that is depicting the American flag as a tablecloth. If the OP of the ad has a problem we can then state that PM'ing is encouraged and please remove the picture.

Is that simple amendment to much to ask to be considered?

SF-
 
SilverFox,
I understand what you are saying and agree in principal. I mean no disrespect to you or anyone. IMHO the forum should not issue any reminders, suggestions or such. If a member takes offense at anything at all, they should PM the OP and discuss it. If nothing is accomplished PM the Mods for permission to openly post on the matter. I would not buy from a person that fits the description of your posts because I personally support you on this particular item, although I must say I didn't see them. I feel strongly about other people making rules, suggestions or reminders about this sort of thing that affect me without my vote. I will do what I want to and suffer the consequences. I won't be regulated by someone else's ideas, that is what I mean. Do you really think that a grown up needs another suggestion to respect something you care about but they are unaware of or don't care? Attack the wallet and you will get results. That is my point and I leave you guys to make your decisions.
rhtwist
 
ZR-

Your post is vague. Can you give some detail?

SF-

Certainly.

SilverFox,
I understand what you are saying and agree in principal. I mean no disrespect to you or anyone. IMHO the forum should not issue any reminders, suggestions or such. If a member takes offense at anything at all, they should PM the OP and discuss it. If nothing is accomplished PM the Mods for permission to openly post on the matter. I would not buy from a person that fits the description of your posts because I personally support you on this particular item, although I must say I didn't see them. I feel strongly about other people making rules, suggestions or reminders about this sort of thing that affect me without my vote. I will do what I want to and suffer the consequences. I won't be regulated by someone else's ideas, that is what I mean. Do you really think that a grown up needs another suggestion to respect something you care about but they are unaware of or don't care? Attack the wallet and you will get results. That is my point and I leave you guys to make your decisions.
rhtwist

Basically, since this isn't a widespread issue here I think it's best handled via PM to those folks that have used the flag in advertisements (even if no actual disrespect was meant), letting them know of the flag code privately and giving them the opportunity to remove the images on their own.

I would hazard to guess that nearly everyone here respects the flag and what it represents and, per your own statements, your interactions with those folks whom you HAVE PM'ed have been cordial and the ad posters have been agreeable to removing the "disrespectful" images once the issue has been brought to their attention.

I just don't know how adding some statement on this subject to the "rules" section of this forum should be a REQUIREMENT of the owner of this site, which is what I am getting the feeling that you are saying.

That being said, from now on I do intend to PM those folks that I see using the flag in their ads, which I'll confess is something that I haven't done in the past.
 
ZR-

Good enough for you, good enough for me. At least now if I do come across something like this again I will have a point of contact to C.C. my PM's to, so you are informed as well.

SF-
 
You all are acting like you ready know the code. I had someone tell once that flag pattches on uniforms were vilolation of the the code. It is not.
I got a real education when I read the whole thing in depth. It checked my thoughts and corrected more that a few.
I have done a lot dumb things, but intentionally disrespecting my flag was not one of them.
The is no more wonderful beautful sight in this world.
When i get to heaven God will have an American flag flying in his courtyead an a 45 on his hip
 

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