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Respect for the U.S. Flag and violations of U.S. Code

Discussion in 'Questions, Problems, & Feedback' started by Silver Fox, Sep 29, 2009.

  1. Silver Fox

    Silver Fox Puyallup, WA Well-Known Member

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    I hope all members read this and the moderators consider making this a rule posted in the classified rules. This is the second violation of I have personally seen on this forum (I am not going to humiliate the current poster who has violated the U.S. Code here: http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagcode.htm subsection 8, paragraph b. for I have already PMed and waiting for his reply). Some may see this as trivial but we all came to this sight for our love of our American rights. It is hypocritical of us to praise and freely talk about (freedom of speech) our 2nd amendment rights while disrespecting our flag.

    I am asking all forum members to please uphold the standards and traditions of our American flag.

    If anyone has a problem with this thread do not post here just PM me.

    Thank you,

    SF-
     
  2. eldbillbo

    eldbillbo clackamas New world samurai and a redneck none the less Bronze Supporter

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    I'm Gonna let Mr. Cash speak for me.

    JOHNNY CASH LYRICS

    "Ragged Old Flag"

    I walked through a county courthouse square
    On a park bench, an old man was sittin' there.
    I said, "Your old court house is kinda run down,
    He said, "Naw, it'll do for our little town".
    I said, "Your old flag pole is leaned a little bit,
    And that's a ragged old flag you got hangin' on it".
    He said, "Have a seat", and I sat down,
    "Is this the first time you've been to our little town"
    I said, "I think it is"
    He said "I don't like to brag, but we're kinda proud of
    That Ragged Old Flag

    "You see, we got a little hole in that flag there,
    When Washington took it across the Delaware.
    and It got powder burned the night Francis Scott Key sat watching it,
    writing "Say Can You See"
    It got a rip in New Orleans, with Packingham & Jackson
    tugging at its seams.
    and It almost fell at the Alamo
    beside the Texas flag,
    But she waved on though.
    She got cut with a sword at Chancellorsville,
    And she got cut again at Shiloh Hill.
    There was Robert E. Lee and Beauregard and Bragg,
    And the south wind blew hard on
    That Ragged Old Flag

    "On Flanders Field in World War I,
    She got a big hole from a Bertha Gun,
    She turned blood red in World War II
    She hung limp, and low, a time or two,
    She was in Korea, Vietnam, She went where she was sent
    by her Uncle Sam.
    She waved from our ships upon the briny foam
    and now they've about quit wavin' back here at home
    in her own good land here She's been abused,
    She's been burned, dishonored, denied an' refused,
    And the government for which she stands
    Has been scandalized throughout out the land.
    And she's getting thread bare, and she's wearin' thin,
    But she's in good shape, for the shape she's in.
    Cause she's been through the fire before
    and i believe she can take a whole lot more.

    "So we raise her up every morning
    And we bring her down slow every night,
    We don't let her touch the ground,
    And we fold her up right.
    On second thought
    I *do* like to brag
    Cause I'm mighty proud of
    That Ragged Old Flag"
     
  3. Silver Fox

    Silver Fox Puyallup, WA Well-Known Member

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    eldbillbo,

    Thank you!

    SF-
     
  4. pirateer2007

    pirateer2007 Spokane Wa Member

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    I noticed it as well, and I fully agree. It may be beneficial to inform the poster, as he may not be aware of the codes for handling our nation's flag. I know I didn't know anything about handling the flag or disposal until my dad who served in the Army saw me taking our flag down and it touched the ground. He pulled me aside and had a heart to heart with me and informed me how it was to be handled.
     
  5. Silver Fox

    Silver Fox Puyallup, WA Well-Known Member

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    Pirateer- your dad is a good man. Our country needs more men and espically dads like him.

    SF-
     
  6. parsons_12b

    parsons_12b LaPine Oregon Well-Known Member

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    If it is a lack of knowledge that is one thing and I will do what I can to help educate anyone that wants to learn. The problem is i think alot of people don't care they think it looks cool and patriotic to put guns with the flag. Well the flag does not need anything added to it. It should never have anything laying on it and the onle thing it should ever be draped over is the casket of my brothers and sisters who have paid the ultimate price. I completly agree that as a site that supports our freedoms and provides a outlet for us to come together and enjoy them. There should be rules protecting the very symbol of that freedom.
     
  7. Silver Fox

    Silver Fox Puyallup, WA Well-Known Member

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    Parsons- well said!

    MOD's you paying attention?

    Please Don't disapoint us.

    SF-
     
  8. Trlsmn

    Trlsmn In Utero (Portland) Well-Known Member

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    Contact the member first and deal with him directly, this really should have been the first thing you did rather than drag him and this out into public. It's very likely he doesn't know flag etiquette and could even be a nice guy that would be willing to fix it on his own without making a huge show of it.

    -Trlsmn
     
  9. willseeker

    willseeker N. Portland. Well-Known Member

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    Hi Trlsmn,

    I believe that S.F. has already contacted the member, or at least that's what I got from his original post.

    And yes, the member probably wasn't aware of flag etiquette.

    Doesn't seem that he was dragged into anything. My two cents.

    Respectfully,
    Will
     
  10. Trlsmn

    Trlsmn In Utero (Portland) Well-Known Member

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    No problem Will. I would just like to give the guy a chance before getting involved is all.

    -Trlsmn
     
  11. LibertyorDeath

    LibertyorDeath Western Washington Member

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    On a side note on the last 4th of July our city was handing out little plastic flags stamped with Made in China. I was damn pissed when I saw that.
     
  12. Trlsmn

    Trlsmn In Utero (Portland) Well-Known Member

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    Now that is just messed up on so many levels!
     
  13. Silver Fox

    Silver Fox Puyallup, WA Well-Known Member

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    Trismn-

    My point behind all this are two things:

    1. There should be an additional clause in the classified rules that sate something really simple like, "In addition to the above rules, we ask as an online community to adhere to the proper etiquette of the U.S. flag and have it not to be used as table cover or other such device to display your merchandise. We have several members who have fought overseas and they themselves have lost close friends and family members who have died serving our great country, the same great country that has brought you the second amendment. If you have any questions about the proper etiquette of displaying the U.S. flag please contact the member known as 'Silver Fox' for he can take the time to educate you as he has a loud mouth and is very passionate about the proper handling of the U.S. flag and it is this passion that blinds his good judgement sometimes in discussing such an issue. Thank you for understanding."

    2. I posted this suggestion/thread back in September and I would have thought there would have been some kind of discussion about this or even a MOD acknowledging the post but after 90 views it fell to the bottom of the 2nd page under this section. As a proud member of this online forum I look out for the image of gun owners and this site. I thought it was a good suggestion and doesn't have to have a death squad monitoring classified photos, but this was the 3rd such photo since August so that tells me this is a small issue that should be addressed. Most Americans haven't been taught proper flag etiquette, so it isn't a bash on them the individual, but a more of a group concern to help those who don't.

    SF-
     
  14. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Clackamas County Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    It is not a matter of "etiquette".......it is a matter of respect.
     
  15. coctailer

    coctailer Portland, OR/Hastings, MI/Vancouver,WA I run with scissors.

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    I have been watching this and the other thread.

    I confess, I don't know all the rules of my flag. I do believe it needs to be respected on this site.

    I'm not sure how to administrate the rule on this, but we are open to suggestions like you have pointed out.

    One thing I was disappointed about was the way the OP in the other thread was "called out".

    I do understand the reason why, and I believe it was not done in malice. I hope everyone is not offended by the situation and how it played out.

    SF, I saw the original post, your response, and everything up to this thread.
    I have been thinking of what to say since then.

    This is all I have for now, and feel free to continue to discuss.
    We are watching, and understand.
     
  16. rhtwist

    rhtwist South Florida Member

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    I currently am against a forum rule. Private PM and shunning should be adequate.
    rhtwist
     
  17. Silver Fox

    Silver Fox Puyallup, WA Well-Known Member

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    Rhtwist, I agree there doesn't need to be a rule those are already in place via U.S. Congress, what it boils down to is a simple reminder of respecting our flag in the classified section. Don't have to ban or shun or even warn members, just a simple and casual 'hey that's messed up and here is why...' lime the first two members I caught and they were completly and totally cool about removing the picture depicting the Flag in a disrespectful manner. The OP With the sks caught me on a bad day, was my behavior a little overboard for this forum? By their standards yes. I am just frustraded how complacient our society has become with the flag and of all places a firearms forum? I would expect this kind of behavior out of some left wing nut case forum, but not here. Just saddens me.

    Any man worth his salt has a line in the sand that he will not cross this is one of mine.

    SF-
     
  18. rhtwist

    rhtwist South Florida Member

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    Hello Silver Fox,
    A reminder in the classified IMHO is tantamount to a rule. The first amendment, for which millions have died or been injured defending with their blood, I believe a reminder violates that very amendment. If a person chooses not to respect, or go so far a too disrespect our Nation's Flag, should be PM'ed to let them know. and then advised of the none participation of the supporting members in any purchases from that member. Advise and attack the money belt for the exercise of your rights not to buy from whomever you choose. Again I don't like rules or reminders. I did not join to be regulated by anyone, outside the guidelines of the rules, even if it is for a good IMO cause. Or at least take a vote requiring over 80 percent of the current population of members to make a rule. At least then more than a few members get their viewpoints expressed by ballot. Just my opinion.
    rhtwist
     
  19. coctailer

    coctailer Portland, OR/Hastings, MI/Vancouver,WA I run with scissors.

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    I think a polite IM with a link to the code will make the member feel not so embarrassed.
     
  20. RVTECH

    RVTECH LaPine Well-Known Member

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    I assume everyone also believes that disrespect to the flag would extend to the wearing of clothing made with a US Flag pattern?