resident alien (green card) firearm purchase question

[remingtontactical]

Hello members here. Great to be a gun owner and I believe this makes the owners strong and responsible! Also one of the most important reasons I live in this country.

Here is a question: I hold a green card. The previous purchases were all made at the local gun stores. As a rule, they require green card, 90 days proof in forms of bill and a secondary background check. The result is: I pay the money but I have to pick up the firearm 1 day after.

If these rules are true, that will make it almost impossible to purchase a gun at a out of town gun show. I don't prefer to pay to some vendor I don't know then hope they can mail in the gun. Or they wonldn't let me pick up the same day and I will have to drive back the second day? I prefer to go the show and come back the same day. So I wonder, how do the other folks do here? Any thoughts?

I appreciate your time and answer. Shoot straight

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[nwwoodsman]

Not sure how the gun show will work out for you but I do have a question. Can you do a private transaction without all the fuss?

 

[remingtontactical]

Not sure how the gun show will work out for you but I do have a question. Can you do a private transaction without all the fuss?

Yes. As long as it is within the oregon state, i can purchase from a private party just like a citizen can.

 

[hermannr]

As a green card you should be treated exactly like any citizen...I always was until I received my citizenship. I know OR has some kind of funky stuff for "legal aliens", but I'm not sure what it is...I would suggest you get your CHL and fix the problem.

I know here in WA the funky alien stuff only pertains to resident aliens that do NOT have green card status, even then you can still purchase and even we even have a special "alien CPL" (RCW 9.41.173) but this paragraph does not apply to green card holders. Green card holders are treated like citizens are.

I lived in OR, and owned firearms in OR as a green card,,,but that was late 50's and early 60's..years before the GCA68 and all the states knee jerk reactions to that law..

 

[remingtontactical]

Thank you very much for the input. That is what I thought in the past. I did not want to waste time debating with the local gun shops and they are nice. Until I am thinking about going to the gun show, the question raises.

I was told that in OR, even a CHL license can not waive the background check nowadays.

Can I not to mention my green car status during the transaction in the gun show? That way, they will background check me just like citizens. Don't want to get in trouble for myself neither the gun broker. I figured I'd better ask people here.

As a green card you should be treated exactly like any citizen...I always was until I received my citizenship. I know OR has some kind of funky stuff for "legal aliens", but I'm not sure what it is...I would suggest you get your CHL and fix the problem.
....

 

[Botte Hork]

As a greencard holder you don't get treated like a citizen in all cases, especially not in Oregon when you want to apply for a CHL (CHL has the requirement that you show intention to naturalize with the USCIS n-300 form which costs $250 to file and has no real legal meaning as it does not force you to start the naturalization once you're eligible, nor does it give you any additional benefit in the actual naturalization process. The form is kept alive since some localities and states might need it to do business with them. Oregon is one of them for the CHL), and you more or less by default get a delay with the NCIS background check. Annoying, especially since they seem to like me and approved my last purchase an hour later.

Here in WA I was told my CPL helps speed things up for background checks, but I guess it varies per state. The benefit of the CPL is also that concealed carry doesn't land you in prison.


edit: Some OR sherrifs require citizenship, from what I understood from their websites and Multnomah county requires you to start naturalization within 1 year otherwise the CHL gets revoked. For me as an out-of-stater, I have some flexibility in choosing where to apply.

 

[hermannr]

As a greencard holder you don't get treated like a citizen in all cases, especially not in Oregon when you want to apply for a CHL (CHL has the requirement that you show intention to naturalize with the USCIS n-300 form which costs $250 to file and has no real legal meaning as it does not force you to start the naturalization once you're eligible, nor does it give you any additional benefit in the actual naturalization process. The form is kept alive since some localities and states might need it to do business with them. Oregon is one of them for the CHL), and you more or less by default get a delay with the NCIS background check. Annoying, especially since they seem to like me and approved my last purchase an hour later.

Here in WA I was told my CPL helps speed things up for background checks, but I guess it varies per state. The benefit of the CPL is also that concealed carry doesn't land you in prison.


edit: Some OR sherrifs require citizenship, from what I understood from their websites and Multnomah county requires you to start naturalization within 1 year otherwise the CHL gets revoked. For me as an out-of-stater, I have some flexibility in choosing where to apply.

That whole naturalization stuff in OR law is unconstitutional. All ready been through teh courts... Federal appeals court in MA was the last one that I saw that was thrown out, RCW 9.41.171, 173, and 175 are corrections to WA's old law that were forced through the courts. Don't think they ever applied to a green card though. My problem is I became a US Citizen in 1970, and a lot of things have changed since then so my knowledge of this stuff is dated..

Green card holder would have no problems obtaining a CPL here in WA, and yes, ifyou have a CPL you can bring your new toy home with you, no wait.

In OR, if I was still a green card, I think I would apply for my CHL, and then challenge the naturalization thing. It has to be illegal if only because you cannot obtain citizenship in 1 year..federal law makes you wait a minimum of 5 years even to start the process..Feds have already stated you cannot deny a resident ailien a CHL if that he is an alien is teh only reason for the denial. Maybe check with the Second Amendment Foundation, they were the ones that took WA and MA to court, and they are presently in the court with NM over the same question.

 

[Botte Hork]

I know, WA was different and has changed for the better.

Since I'm still a good 4 years down the road to eligibility, I'll apply outside of Multnomah. I'll ping the SAF, I'm a member anyway, to see if they have plans or recommend a strategy.

 

[PBinWA]

I know, WA was different and has changed for the better.

Since I'm still a good 4 years down the road to eligibility, I'll apply outside of Multnomah. I'll ping the SAF, I'm a member anyway, to see if they have plans or recommend a strategy.

I'm pretty sure you have to be either a U.S. Citizen, or a Green Card Holder AND Resident of Oregon to get the Oregon CHL. Out of state Green Card Holder's can't get an OR CHL. Unless they changed the law in the last year or so.

My last OR rifle purchase and background check cleared faster than 15 minutes - which for me is an all time record. I usually have an hour or two wait.

For me it isn't that big of a deal, I can handle the short delays. Being a green card holder hasn't seem to curtail my second amendment rights much - other than getting an OR or Utah CHL.

 

[hermannr]

I know, WA was different and has changed for the better.

Since I'm still a good 4 years down the road to eligibility, I'll apply outside of Multnomah. I'll ping the SAF, I'm a member anyway, to see if they have plans or recommend a strategy.

I assume you have a WA CPL already? If I was looking for an OR CHL, and I was a WA resident, I would check with Sheriff Palmer in Grant County OR..he has helped countless WA and CA residents to get their OR CHL.

 

[PBinWA]

Looks like the law hasn't changed:

Concealed Handgun, License to Carry - Oregon Licenses, Permits and Registrations

1. Citizen of the United States; or
Is a legal resident alien who can document continuous residency in the county for at least six months and has declared in writing to the United States Citizenship and Immigration Services the intent to acquire citizenship status and can present proof of the written declaration to the sheriff at the time of application for the license.
2. 21 or older.
3. Not a convicted felon.
4. Not convicted or found guilty of a misdemeanor.
5. No outstanding warrants for your arrest or free on any form of pretrial release.
6. Demonstrates competence with a handgun per ORS 166.291(f).

 

[Botte Hork]

Oh crap, that sucks.

I thought there was no need for residency. In that case, I'll save me some money.

@hermannr: Yup, WA resident, greencard, WA CPL and resident in a bordering county. So strictly speaking, the fact that I have to have OR residency is now discrimination against greencard holders. I did hear good things about Sheriff Palmer, I'll contact him to see what is possible. But if the ORS says "no", it's probably time to bring in SAF. And just stay the hell out of OR unless sales tax drives me.

 

[CrossHairs]

While I was on a green card, I had two occasions where the background check was done quickly. One within 20 minutes and another in about 2 hours. I'd driven home and was not expecting to have to go back till the next day. All other transactions however required the 24 hour wait. I speculate that the wait is because they do more to check up on you and it's handed to a different person/division or they bundle all the foreigners and do those checks as a group later....who knows!?

 

[remingtontactical]

While I was on a green card, I had two occasions where the background check was done quickly. One within 20 minutes and another in about 2 hours. I'd driven home and was not expecting to have to go back till the next day. All other transactions however required the 24 hour wait. I speculate that the wait is because they do more to check up on you and it's handed to a different person/division or they bundle all the foreigners and do those checks as a group later....who knows!?

OK, so basically, I should not buy a gun at (out of town) gun show. Unless it is sold from a private party.
Thanks for all the thoughts and ideas.

 

[Botte Hork]

OK, so basically, I should not buy a gun at (out of town) gun show. Unless it is sold from a private party.
Thanks for all the thoughts and ideas.

Why not? Private party is quick and painfree, from a trader/FFL it'll have the usual nonsense. If it's the gun you want and like, breathe in, sigh, and go with the formalities.

Where are you from? From Holland myself. Some have said that the recent changes in WA law should make me feel more like home.

 

[PBinWA]

Oh crap, that sucks.

I thought there was no need for residency. In that case, I'll save me some money.

@hermannr: Yup, WA resident, greencard, WA CPL and resident in a bordering county. So strictly speaking, the fact that I have to have OR residency is now discrimination against greencard holders. I did hear good things about Sheriff Palmer, I'll contact him to see what is possible. But if the ORS says "no", it's probably time to bring in SAF. And just stay the hell out of OR unless sales tax drives me.

I don't find the wait in OR to be any different than the wait in WA. I asked Sheriff Palmer about it last year and he pointed me to the above law.

 

[PBinWA]

OK, so basically, I should not buy a gun at (out of town) gun show. Unless it is sold from a private party.
Thanks for all the thoughts and ideas.

Most FFL's are pretty reasonable and will hold the gun. I've had new FFL's that have had to call the ATF to get all the rules but the ATF always gives them the right advice. Lot's of US Citizens get put on hold too - don't feel singled out.

 

[8ball]

My understanding is the delay is caused by the citizenship questions 14 and 15 on the 4473 form, which causes NICS to do some additional checks that can take a few hours. The same thing would happen at a gun show with an FFL. Getting a CPL wouldn't make a difference.

 

[hermannr]

Out of state Green Card Holder's can't get an OR CHL..

Wrong 1(c) (the Oregon resident requirement) can be waived by the Sheriff ORS 166.291(8), nothing else changes.

 

[PBinWA]

Wrong 1(c) (the Oregon resident requirement) can be waived by the Sheriff ORS 166.291(8), nothing else changes.

Cool!

Have you found a Sheriff willing to do this?