Reloading Monolithics for Hunting

[Koda]

Like you say, though, the proof is in the pudding!

Ive narrowed my choice down to 4 options. One evening I spent a few hours plugging in a ballistic calculator estimating velocities comparing them all and concluded I was overthinking things again.
Between Hammer and Barnes, I cant go wrong with any of my choices. I'll probably just pick one in the middle and go for it.

 

[3MTA3]

Almost no monolithic will have BCs commonly found in target bullets. They are too light for their length. Being longer lead-core bullets of the same weight, they can also get into stability problems that don't seem to jive with their weight.

I think the chart below from Nosler demonstrates that. The Expansion Tip is Nosler's monolith, so having the same overall weight at the other bullets must be physically longer. Even though it is longer, it's BC is only slightly better than most of the other spitzer/boattails.

 

[BigGame]

Probably the toughest aspect is determining what weight of bullet to use based on barrel twist. I'm looking for a good deer/elk bullet for my 280 AI. Barrel twist is 1 in 8*, speeds run about 50 fps slower than a 7mm Rem Mag. In a more traditional bullet I'd be looking at 160 grains, so I would be looking at 140 to 150 grains in a monolithic?

It's not that tough determining the weight of monolithic relative to lead core, it just takes some experience to raise your comfort level by seeing for yourself how much more effectively they penetrate. I shoot a 7mm-08, which is slower than your 280 AI. I began thinking I needed a 150-160g bullet for elk. After a few years I'm now down to 120-130 for shots out to 500 yards. Just start playing with them and keep an open mind. Start wherever feels comfortable.

What are you doing for load development? Start at the low end of the same load for a conventional bullet of the same weight, even though the less dense monolithic will take up more case volume at the same OAL?

Yes, start at the low end for a bullet (any) of the same weight and work up while looking for pressure signs. Pretty much like anything. You can't generalize that all monolithics are the same. Some designs may show pressure earlier and require more jump depending on design and alloy. Other designs/alloys will allow you to reach and exceed book max values safely. Depend on pressure signs.

 

[3MTA3]

Ron Spomer on Hammers an hour ago

I'm pretty sold

 

[Koda]

I'm pretty sold

Ive been waiting for this review from Spomer to come out since Im reloading for the 25-06 and been following his videos I know he had a custom 25-06 rifle made to shoot the Hammers.
Im pretty sold on the Hammers in my 25 as well but this video really provides some key info to seal the deal. A close second for me is the 25cal Barnes 115g TSX which will mushroom nicely and has great reviews and penetrates deeply often with pass thrus. Ive been debating the difference between deep penetration vs petal shedding projectiles but this video addresses that directly...

as the bullet passes thru the animal "the slower the bullet goes the less wound channel it makes" is the intent behind the Hammer bullets, by petal shedding it retains some of its velocity.

 

[BigGame]

I've been shooting the Hammer bullets for a few years now. Very pleased. I've converted all of my hunting rifles to them.

 

[cameron25]

Have any of you guys tried cutting edge or badlands bullets?

 

[Koda]

Have any of you guys tried cutting edge or badlands bullets?

Ive read a few good recommendations on both of those but there is an overwhelming amount of actual use reviews favoring Hammers. Im just now moving to monos but my choice will be either Hammer or Barnes, Lehigh defense is a close runner up but Im going to start out with Hammers based on the real use reviews that are widely available in a web search.

 

[3MTA3]

Hammer is on their annual vacation. I like that they have their priorities straight - you work so you can live and not the other way around.

 

[Koda]

Hammer is on their annual vacation. I like that they have their priorities straight - you work so you can live and not the other way around.

View attachment 1173643

Gotta have a lot of respect for that. I emailed Hammer with a question and got a quick reply direct from Steve. I also like that he participates in hunting forums directly including making themselves available to answer criticisms.
Lots of real world reviews on Hammers gives a lot of confidence in choosing them.

 

[cameron25]

Yes there are lots of good reviews of hammers, its the reason i ordered a few different bullets from them. Steve also answered the email i sent him quickly. Another thing i like about them is that they are seemingly always in stock and ship fast. Only downside is that people online say their BC numbers are inflated when they actually tested it. The cutting edge bullets have similar terminal performance supposedly but have better BC. Badlands claims to have the most BC of all the monos and are much cheaper than the other 2, but they're made to expand like barnes instead of fragmenting. I actually have some of all of them, i was just wondering if anyone else has tried those 2 because im just starting to mess with them in my 6.5 prc

 

[Koda]

Only downside is that people online say their BC numbers are inflated when they actually tested it.

In another hunting specific forum, Steve personally addressed this question. IIRC they were investing in an expensive BC measuring device and should be updating the values on their website accordingly. I trust this level of honesty and transparency, I have no reason to assume their similar sized competitors aren't going thru the same process though I would expect a larger company like Barnes to be spot on.
IMO at the end of the day I dont think you can go wrong with any of these companies we are really splitting hairs here in terminal performance. I just like the openness on the forums from Hammer the other companies never caught on to that to their demise.

 

[joken]

I completely agree. And this is one of the first things people tend to hear about monolithics - go lighter and push them faster. This is a formula that works for various styles of monolithic design. But it's also a bit difficult for people to completely believe until they test it out for themselves. Your example of a 130gr TTSX from a 30-06 on elk is a good example. I'm certain it is completely devastating, but it's totally understandable if people make the drift downward in weight slowly.

What is important from a reloading perspective, I think, is to always examine what you're gaining in velocity and flatter trajectory out to your intended distances as you decrease weight. You may not yet have the confidence to know that that lighter weight projectile will in fact penetrate like a 180gr bonded/lead-core, but once your realize it will all of the extra benefits of that velocity become gravy.

I find them to be accurate and more tolerant of a little jump to the lands vs cup and cores. I tend to use light to mid-range weights in any given caliber because SPEED is your friend when it comes to getting good expansion over a longer distance. That, and they don't shed weight like jacketed bullets. A 150gr TTSX will weigh more than a 180gr Partition, if you can even catch it in the animal to weigh it. Most will exit unless impact velocity is real low.

So, I tend to load lighter weight for more velocity and use what the bullet manufacturers load data. They have more bearing surface since they have to be longer than a corresponding C&C bullet to achieve the same weight.

Edit: I'd have no issue using 130gr TTSX on elk out of a 30-06. These, at 3200fps, are devastating.

When it comes to the 25-06, IMO, using anything more than 115gr bullets becomes grounds for a 270. A 270 will push 130s as fast or faster than a 25-06 with 115gr bullets. It may be possible with a longer barrel and a powder like RL26 to get the heavier bullets going a bit faster, but I don't think it makes sense. The 100gr copper or 110gr bonded bullets are just fine for anything up to elk.

I think I posted this before. This little buck was killed with my 270 and a 130gr TTSX. I shoot 140's in my 7mm.

 

[cameron25]

In another hunting specific forum, Steve personally addressed this question. IIRC they were investing in an expensive BC measuring device and should be updating the values on their website accordingly. I trust this level of honesty and transparency, I have no reason to assume their similar sized competitors aren't going thru the same process though I would expect a larger company like Barnes to be spot on.
IMO at the end of the day I dont think you can go wrong with any of these companies we are really splitting hairs here in terminal performance. I just like the openness on the forums from Hammer the other companies never caught on to that to their demise.

Yeah i think brian litz tested them and found their BC numbers to be inflated, then steve tried to say brian doesn't know what hes doing several guys on rokslide tested them and not one got the numbers steve claims. But for shorter distance hunting its not a big deal, and people who shoot them love them despite the numbers being off on the BC. I hear they're super easy to develop loads with too. I have the 123gr absolutes, 124gr hammer hunters for loading now, and the 131 hammer hunters for when my 1:7.5t barrel shows up, looking forward to trying them out

I agree, they are probably all good and animals likely wont know the difference. I just like to tinker. Ive read of some failures with barnes, but it might be cause theres just so many more people that have used them than other monos

 

[Koda]

Yeah i think brian litz tested them and found their BC numbers to be inflated, then steve tried to say brian doesn't know what hes doing several guys on rokslide tested them and not one got the numbers steve claims. But for shorter distance hunting its not a big deal, and people who shoot them love them despite the numbers being off on the BC. I hear they're super easy to develop loads with too. I have the 123gr absolutes, 124gr hammer hunters for loading now, and the 131 hammer hunters for when my 1:7.5t barrel shows up, looking forward to trying them out

I agree, they are probably all good and animals likely wont know the difference. I just like to tinker. Ive read of some failures with barnes, but it might be cause theres just so many more people that have used them than other monos

agree here. The BC on the Hammers is the only question I have, I want to use them for long range pronghorn hunting but if Barnes are more accurate then Id use Barnes TTSX. I think the few Barnes "failures" is simply what you said, so many years of them in use theres going to be some complaints... and most of the complaints I read are of passthrus but, the deer was the same level of dead as anyone elses.
My reloading for this is on hold as Im also waiting on a new barrel, 1:7t so Im leaning to the heavier Hammers to see what they will do. I was working with a supply of Barnes TTSX but when I decided to replace the barrel I knew I had to take advantage of getting a faster twist, I think the heavier petal shedding Hammers will equal the faster TTSX in penetration for elk but the Hammers seem more versatile all around for deer and pronghorn at longer range. Thats my theory anyways, again... splitting hairs here.

 

[cameron25]

agree here. The BC on the Hammers is the only question I have, I want to use them for long range pronghorn hunting but if Barnes are more accurate then Id use Barnes TTSX. I think the few Barnes "failures" is simply what you said, so many years of them in use theres going to be some complaints... and most of the complaints I read are of passthrus but, the deer was the same level of dead as anyone elses.
My reloading for this is on hold as Im also waiting on a new barrel, 1:7t so Im leaning to the heavier Hammers to see what they will do. I was working with a supply of Barnes TTSX but when I decided to replace the barrel I knew I had to take advantage of getting a faster twist, I think the heavier petal shedding Hammers will equal the faster TTSX in penetration for elk but the Hammers seem more versatile all around for deer and pronghorn at longer range. Thats my theory anyways, again... splitting hairs here.

They cost more, but you could look into the cutting edge lazer if the hammers dont work out for you at long range. They have a tip on them and expand down to 1200fps so they'd be great for that. They are supposed to shed petals like the hammers too. Pretty sure people are breaking records and shooting 2 miles with the lazer in the bigger calibers. I havent done much with them yet, loaded a few but havent found pressure.

The badlands seem like a great deal for a lathe turned high BC bullet. I ordered a box but then afterwards ehile researching them further, i saw that one of the 2 owners of the company has recently been charged with creating and attempting to distribute child porn and is awaiting trial now i think. I know, innocent till proven guilty and all, but its not a good look at all..

 

[Koda]

They cost more, but you could look into the cutting edge lazer if the hammers dont work out for you at long range. They have a tip on them and expand down to 1200fps so they'd be great for that. They are supposed to shed petals like the hammers too. Pretty sure people are breaking records and shooting 2 miles with the lazer in the bigger calibers. I havent done much with them yet, loaded a few but havent found pressure.

The badlands seem like a great deal for a lathe turned high BC bullet. I ordered a box but then afterwards ehile researching them further, i saw that one of the 2 owners of the company has recently been charged with creating and attempting to distribute child porn and is awaiting trial now i think. I know, innocent till proven guilty and all, but its not a good look at all..

I have Cutting Edge bookmarked, but depending on how long it takes to get my new barrel installed and back to me I hope to have time to develop a load in time for this fall. Im still fairly new to reloading so I'll start with either a Barnes or Hammer for simplicity and experiment with the others later.

Hope thats not the case but yeah thats not a good look for Badlands, yikes.