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Reloading for others... liability?

Discussion in 'Ammunition & Reloading' started by ZeroRing, Jul 20, 2009.

  1. ZeroRing

    ZeroRing 26th District, WA Active Member

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    Hey all, here's a question I just got to pondering... when teaching/doing reloads with a friend (who will be using them in THEIR firearm) what are your thoughts on having them sign some sort of liability release just in case something terrible happens??

    I mean I have no "worries" per se with any of the loads since they were all done well under the max listed for the round (and would have no qualms about using them in my own weapon) but I just got to thinking... what would happen IF something terrible happened and a reload was the cause of it??

    I wouldn't expect to get sued over it but then again... how well do I know this persons extended family?? I know that I personally would never sue if the roles were reversed but... I have no way of knowing what MY extended family would do if I were injured/killed due to a bad reload done by a friend. As such... I would have no problems with signing a liability release/whatever.

    Anyways... I just figured I'd throw this little nugget out there for everyone to ponder. :thumbup:
     
  2. NK777

    NK777 West of Portland Member

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    I've reloaded for people I know. If I know them I trust them and am pretty sure they aren't going to sue me over it. That being said a release form is probably a good idea but I don't think it'll save you from being sued unless your a license ammunition manufacture but that also might work against you... Hmmm, I guess the best advice I can give you is if your worried about it don't share your reloaded ammunition. I'm not going to let it bother me though.
     
  3. MWS

    MWS Oregon City,OR Member

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    I'm not worried about my loads at all... If you do everything as they should be done there's nothing to fear. In fact I prefer my loads over factory and those that have used my ammo feel the same.
     
  4. toys

    toys PDX Member

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    Ive reloaded for several friends. they know how i reload and are not worried about the quality.

    i dont do progressive loading.. I will progressive prep all of my brass. but the loading is done on blocks so i can visually veriy each charge. it takes more time, but i feel alot better that i can say that all of them have been visually checked. also, i will randomly pick 10 cases, dump them and weigh. i then divide by 10 to get an average so i can see where, on the average, the individual charges are with relation to what i wanted. that doesnt mean something couldnt go wrong. if i got a bad batch of powder, but wasnt aware of it until later, it could give me problems.

    also, just because you did everything correct in your loading process, it doesnt mean that the user cant screw things up. a plausable scenario - you loaded some 45acp and the guy decided to load some in his 1911. well, he decides to practice stripping off a round and reinserting it into the mag which causes the bullet to setback. he doesnt see it, but its goes KB when he dicides to fire it.. Now, he didnt see the setback so he wont know, but he will belive its the ammo, not his actions. the bullet setback is real, the KB, who knows.

    you can have them sign a waiver, but from what i understand about waivers, it doesnt excuse"negligence" on your part. now, prooving negligence can be difficult. but it all depends on how good your/their lawyer is. in the end, both parties will probably be out alot of $$$.

    also, you can be sued civilly if they want to persue it.

    what it comes down to is that you will never know who will do what unit it happens. i choose my friends carefully and my shooting friends more so. even then, im selective to who i will reload for if ido.

    there is a saying....You cant get blood from a turnip.
     
  5. sillyrabbit

    sillyrabbit Salem, Oregon Member

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    An friend and fellow shooter and attorney, suggested the following:
    1) Require each "friend" to bring a NEW box of ammo to the reloading session (New ammo must be in the same caliber and bullet weight/type and brass type to be reloaded.
    2) Require (teach) the friend to reload a few (to many?) rounds themselves (under supervision of course)
    When re-loading is complete, MIX all the reloads and new product together and run through media cleaner to re-polish and remove lube, then, give it all to the friend.
    SHOULD there be some "problem" occur at a later date, who is to say (without ANY doubt) that it was a faulty or negligent reload or the new product that caused the problem? It would be nearly impossible to prove (to a judge, jury, insurance company) which one caused the "problem"

    PS If a single brand of brass is to be used, the purchased ammo must be same brand, should mixed brass be used, then one of the brands must match.

    Novel idea I though.
     
  6. Huntbear

    Huntbear Ellensburg, Wa. Member

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    I only reload for myself, my brother, and my nephew. I work up new loads for each gun, and I shoot those loads myself. Once I am satisfied that the load is safe, I then reload 50 rounds of each, for each gun. I am so anal about my reloading that my brother says, he can not be around me when I am working up loads. If I even suspect I made a mistake on a shell, it gets completely torn down and started over.

    So, to answer your question, no, I do not worry about it at all.
     
  7. ZeroRing

    ZeroRing 26th District, WA Active Member

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    Yeah, I am not necessarily worried over being sued either... but as I mentioned, what happens when the buddy who swore he would never sue you over a mishap ends up room temperature and his "family" decides that it was the reloads he was doing with you that "caused" the accident and sicks their lawyers on you?

    Ditto on that. I too am pretty strict with my procedures, but again it's not the fellow enthusiast I am worried about. It's "them".

    THAT is indeed an interesting idea though I think the forensic folks would probably have little trouble ID'ing which was which.

    Yup, I am the same way.

    I guess though the real question is, would some sort of liability release form hold up in court (assuming it's "worded" properly) enough so that a grieving family would decide to honor their loved ones wishes and NOT seek blood from an also grieving turnip?? :(
     
  8. NK777

    NK777 West of Portland Member

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    If you sit down with a lawyer and have him draft you up something it very well might stand up in court. A good lawyer will write you a air tight release form but there are no guarantee's in court. :thumbup:
     
  9. ZeroRing

    ZeroRing 26th District, WA Active Member

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    Ain't THAT the truth! :paranoid:
     
  10. Huntbear

    Huntbear Ellensburg, Wa. Member

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    That is why, even custom reloading is so expensive. The insurance they have to carry, even a gunsmith has to carry is like malpractice insurance for a doctor..
     
  11. Jaybo

    Jaybo Olympia Washington Member

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    Zero.... If ANY of the loads you did for me... "BLOW UP" and KILL ME... you'd better have a good lawyer, cause MY mom (not my Mother In-Law.. she would probably right you a fat check) will KICK YOUR ... ..... :laugh::thumbup:
     
  12. ZeroRing

    ZeroRing 26th District, WA Active Member

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    SEE now why I asked the question!! :bluelaugh:
     
  13. NWMoss

    NWMoss Lost, permanently... Member

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    So, when can you teach me how to reload? I wouldn't hold you accountable for any stupidity on my part - i have all the books on the specs, I just want to see the process from start to finish. I have all the tools.
     
  14. MWS

    MWS Oregon City,OR Member

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    For me... If these words are spoken even in a joking way I would not make or reload any ammo for them. I take a lot of pride in my ammo and would rather shoot my ammo over factory any day.
     
  15. darkminstrel

    darkminstrel PDX Well-Known Member

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    I don't believe you are legally able to write yourself out of liability. You can reduce liability by using a clausal document, but you're still going to get pinged by someone. The .gov may not decide to press charges though we all know civil cases are where the big money is made.
     
  16. ZeroRing

    ZeroRing 26th District, WA Active Member

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    Yeah, isn't it funny how these days with how everyone seems to be so sue-happy that "accidents" are now always someone's "fault"??

    Seems to me an accident is just that, an "accident".

    Ah well, thanks for the thoughts here... it's definitely food for thought. :thumbup:
     
  17. johnboy

    johnboy Hillsboro Member

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    They can sue for anything if they are motivated. I load for people I know and dont worry about it. Hopefully my number will not come up on this one, but I just dont worry about it and would rather shoot my own than any factory any day, and have for many years....................