Quantcast
  1. Sign up now and join over 35,000 northwest gun owners. It's quick, easy, and 100% free!

Reloading 9mm question.

Discussion in 'Ammunition & Reloading' started by Edmon, Jan 22, 2013.

  1. Edmon

    Edmon Battle Ground Active Member

    Messages:
    135
    Likes Received:
    26
    Starting to reload 9mm. I am using 5.0gr. unique. 115gr. Hornady xtp, My OAL is 1.140. w/ a taper crimp. This is for a Springfield Armory XD-9sc. I loaded 5 rounds in magazine to check for feeding issues. I locked the slide back, inserted magazine and released the slide with the slide release. I did this with all 5 rounds and repeated twice. I then rechecked oal and it is now between 1.135 and 1.138. Should this be a concern? Do I need to taper more? Should I change my oal to 1.135? Reloading for practice ammo. Will be using factory SD loads for carry.

    Thanks for your help.
     
  2. oli700

    oli700 Rogue Valley Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,325
    Likes Received:
    1,232
    Take your barrel out and drop one in the chamber, don’t use the slide to rack it in. If it is positively hitting the case mouth before the projo comes in contact with the lands then your fine and just need a little more crimp. If you hit the lands before the case mouth settles on the chamber shoulder then you need to shorten the COAL. …..I load for CZ’s and it is not uncommon for both XD and CZ to have small issues with projo’s shaped like the XTP. The lands start real soon on XD and CZ barrels, real tight tolerance and XTP’s….hollow base Barry’s and such will come into contact with the lands sometime, always for my CZ. I load couple projo types that are “custom” to my chamber, and shorter than SAAMI standards. Unless it’s a FMJ round nose, I make a dummy cartridge anymore using the push method….take that measurement and knock a couple thousands off of that and your good to go. Remember to reduce 10% and work up if you need to.
     
  3. ma96782

    ma96782 Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    803
    Likes Received:
    329
    IMHO....a "good enough" crimp will not allow a bullet to move while chambering (for rifle or pistol ammo).

    Then........

    As for an overall length. The method described above is a good "starting point." I used that method when loading match ammo in .45ACP. But, you may find that alittle shorter might be better. Test it for yourself, every pistol is different.

    Aloha, Mark
     
  4. CrossHairs

    CrossHairs Tigard Active Member

    Messages:
    256
    Likes Received:
    38
    I did the same as oli with my xd and Montana gold bullets and worked out it needs less than a 1.130 col. You can feel the thud of the round into the chamber if the bullet hits the lands vs the clink of the brass stopping the cartridge. It's a great test.

    My sig will take a much longer col.
     
  5. deadshot2

    deadshot2 NW Quadrant WA State Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,407
    Likes Received:
    537
    Just be careful. There are a few powders, 3n37 for one, that require a pretty long OAL in order to keep the pressures down. Make sure that the minimum OAL in published data is heeded. Yes, a shorter OAL may fit the pistol but too short can cause some rather loud noises with scattered parts.
     
  6. Edmon

    Edmon Battle Ground Active Member

    Messages:
    135
    Likes Received:
    26
    Thanks for all the responses. I conducted the drop test and found a good OALl. Now I just need to figure out a good taper crip so the rounds OAL stay put after chambering.
     
  7. taylor

    taylor Willamette Valley Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,134
    Likes Received:
    150
    What kind of die are you using for your crimp? Is it a Lee factory crimp die?
     
  8. Edmon

    Edmon Battle Ground Active Member

    Messages:
    135
    Likes Received:
    26
    Hornady 38/9mm taper crimp die.
     
  9. RVTECH

    RVTECH LaPine Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,262
    Likes Received:
    3,076
    Yea, I learned this the HARD way when I first got my CZ and started loading for it and couldn't figure out why I was having so many feeding problems - then I shortened the OAL and all the problems ended.
     
  10. AMProducts

    AMProducts Maple Valley, WA Jerk, Ammo Manufacturer Silver Supporter

    Messages:
    2,804
    Likes Received:
    1,859
    I might recommend either using a separate taper crimp die, or handling all your seating in one pass, then removing the seating plug, and crimping again. With the XTP's you shouldn't have too many issues, but certain brands of plated bullets can be really sensitive to over-crimping which will completely wipe-out your accuracy.

    As far as the length of set back you're seeing... I wouldn't worry about .005" I would worry if it was .050", in general you're always going to get some setback, if it's less than .010" I wouldn't bother trying to correct it.
     
  11. M67

    M67 NW Oregon Active Member

    Messages:
    422
    Likes Received:
    206
    First of all, your OAL of 1.140 is to long for your 115 grain JHP, which is why when you used the slide to chamber the rounds, they hit the rifling and your OAL is now between 1.135 and 1.138.

    By my relaoding books and years and years of reloading the 9mm, the 9mm 115 grain JHP, should have an OAL of 1.090 regardless of the powder you use.

    Shorten your OAL and you will not have this problem of bullet setback.

    When i load the 9mm rounds, i use a 3 stage press and the last station seats the bullet and crimps the brass.
    I do not stop at this point though. My last step is to use a single stage press, with a Lee factory crimp die.

    Also, if you have a kinetic bullet puller, it should take 2 or 3 solid hits to get the bullet to pop out, if you have a proper crimp.

    An OAL of 1.090 for the 115g JHP has worked flawlessly for me and my friends i load for, in handguns like, S&W, Hi-Power, Sig Sauer, Glock, Walther, CZ, Beretta, Ruger and many others.


    M67
     
  12. deadshot2

    deadshot2 NW Quadrant WA State Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,407
    Likes Received:
    537
    You're generalizing a bit and that can be dangerous. Again, Vihtavouri is very insistent that an OAL of 1.142" be maintained with their powders the hornady 115gr xtp included. As I stated earlier, their 3N37 can be a real problem if you choose to ignore this admonition. That is unless you really like the feel of a case head separation through the back of the frame/slide junction on a CZ75. I can attest that it doesn't feel good and no longer ignore their warning. Actually had to change to a different bullet configuration in order to use this powder at a max load. Now if you don't mind loading "poppers" then I guess it doesn't matter. I prefer loads that "move".
     
  13. M67

    M67 NW Oregon Active Member

    Messages:
    422
    Likes Received:
    206
    Yes, i generalized, for this i apologize.

    I should have stated, for the 9mm 115g JHP bullet, an OAL of 1.090" is recommended, with the following powders.
    700X, SR-4756, Bullseye, "Unique", Blue Dot, HS-6, AA 7, W231, 630 and HS-6.


    If the OP, follows proper reloading technique and watches for pressure signs, along with using a chronograph, a shorter OAL with Unique, will not be a problem at all.

    Since the OP is having the bullets pushed back by the rifling, a shorter OAL is needed for this handgun.
    The chamber depth and rilfing, will vary, even between identical models of handguns.

    Even if the OP chooses not to seat the bullets at 1.090" as "per my manuals", a shorter OAL is still needed for this handgun, since the bullets are being pushed back to "between 1.135" and 1.138" from 1.140"

    If the OP, chooses to run a longer OAL for that handgun, 1.130 would be a great place to work a load up from.

    Unique is an easy powder to load with and it is what i let my kids use, while loading 9mm rounds, since an over charge or double charge is very easy to spot.

    Using both Unique and W231 at an OAL of 1.090" as my manuals state, has never caused a "popper" or any other issues, with the handguns i listed above.
     
  14. oli700

    oli700 Rogue Valley Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,325
    Likes Received:
    1,232
    We established earlier that this is happening on the feed ramp, not the lands.
     
  15. deadshot2

    deadshot2 NW Quadrant WA State Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,407
    Likes Received:
    537
    Do your manuals specifically state "recommended" or do they just "list" the OAL. I find that all to frequently OAL's, unless listed in a specific recipe, are MINIMUM OAL's to prevent overpressure. I know that all the OAL's listed in the Lee 2nd Edition are "Minimum", not suggested. From there on out it's a matter of what will feed through the firearm, loading freely from the magazine, and not jamming in the lands.
     
  16. M67

    M67 NW Oregon Active Member

    Messages:
    422
    Likes Received:
    206
    1- which is an older manual says recommended, but even using this recipe, starting at the lowest charge and working up, will not be a problem, if you watch for pressure signs as you work up to a larger powder charge.

    The other, just lists the OAL, but has a note at the front of the 9mm reloading section, which says, not go any shorter for an OAL, since pressure will incease if you do so. So, this would be a minimum OAL.

    I can chamber the same round(s) many, many times without bullet setback at all.

    I belive the reasons for this are-

    I size and deprime my pistol brass after the first cleaning and then i clean the brass again. I size the brass a second time when it is to be loaded.

    I flare the case mouth "barely enough" to start the Jacketed bullets, which keeps the brass tension very high along the bullets length, as it is seated into the brass.
    I do not load cast or plated bullets, only jacketed.

    I crimp the brass twice. Once during loading on the progressive press and a second time on a single stage press, using the lee factory crimp die.

    I also have kept log books of every load i have developed, including primer type, OAL, bullet type/weight, powder charge, chonograph results and the accuracy results of each load.

    Using this specific set of steps, since the late 80's through now, has never resulted in any problems, for me, the brass, or the firearms used to fire them.

    M67
     
  17. oli700

    oli700 Rogue Valley Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,325
    Likes Received:
    1,232
    Sounds like you have a great system but you guys are overcomplicating the problem. He simply needs a little tighter crimp.....no more and no less, just simple as that
     
  18. deadshot2

    deadshot2 NW Quadrant WA State Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,407
    Likes Received:
    537
    Crimps on 9mm ammo are solely for the purpose of taking out any "bell" or "flare" that was added by the expander in order to get the bullet started when seating. Any more crimp on any case that headspaces on the case mouth can create problems either by distorting the bullet or allowing the case to headspace on the extractor which can lead to misfires.

    If you have setback issues with 9mm cartridges, readjust the sizing die so it touches the shell holder when the ram is fully raised WHILE SIZING A CASE.
     
  19. oli700

    oli700 Rogue Valley Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,325
    Likes Received:
    1,232
    Agreed, it all goes hand and hand. The taper crimp is important to find the balance of head space and grip on the bullet
     
  20. deadshot2

    deadshot2 NW Quadrant WA State Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,407
    Likes Received:
    537
    BUT-

    With a 9mm, you sill need to keep the case mouth measurement when crimped at a measurement that equals the bullet diameter plus two times the case mouth thickness. Any less is excessive crimping on a 9mm round. Mine all measure .376" - .377", depending on case brand name.

    Still the best way to deal with tension on the bullet is to start with a properly set up sizing die and ONLY enough flare on the case to let the bullet start. Do that and crimping might even be moot.