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Registering Guns

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by bjohnson, Mar 23, 2012.

  1. bjohnson

    bjohnson Shoreline New Member

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    Hope everyone is enjoying a sunny Friday!
    I have a couple quick questions in regards to registering guns. I have purchased two hand guns from local gun shops in the past and currently talking with a private seller in regards to an AR-15. I spoke with my cop friend in pierce county and he told me that in WA you don't need to actually register a gun...

    So my questions are:

    1. If we don't have to register guns, what's the point of going to an FFL dealer? Is the main purpose for a FFL registering your gun, just in case it gets stolen its registered, as well as, FFL dealers make sure cross state/online purchases get guns get delivered into the right hands?

    2. Any different guidelines for registering pistols vs long rifles?

    3. Is it true that when you buy a gun at a gun store, they aren't actually registering it?

    4. Later down the road say I want to register the AR-15 I bought from a private seller, do I need anything from the previous seller? Bill of sale. etc?

    Thanks so much for all your input!
     
  2. gunnails

    gunnails Hillsboro Active Member

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    Where do you plan on registering these guns?

    FFL's keep a record of all firearm transactions they make per federal law. this is not a registration database.

    Only a few states actually have registration systems, NY, NJ, Canada.

    If you want to sell or buy from some one in a different state you must by federal law use a FFL. Unless the gun was made before 1894 I believe.
     
  3. fd15k

    fd15k Tigard,OR Well-Known Member

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    And of course California. They registered handguns for a long time now, and recently passed a law to register long guns as well (goes in effect next year).
     
  4. bjohnson

    bjohnson Shoreline New Member

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    The seller and I are both in WA.

    The scenario I'm nervous about is say I take the AR-15 I bought from a private seller to the gun range and it's in my car, the cop sees the case and wants to run the serial number. If it comes back obviously not me, am I ok? Or do I need to carry the bill of sell around with it? ha

    So are all guns not registered in WA, unless you specially ask it to be from an FFL dealer or are having to ship it to one?
     
  5. fd15k

    fd15k Tigard,OR Well-Known Member

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    If a cop runs the serial, it will only come up if it has been reported stolen. If you are not sure about your seller, do the transfer via FFL.
     
  6. bjohnson

    bjohnson Shoreline New Member

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  7. eriknemily

    eriknemily Tillamook County (Cheese!) Member

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    1)You go to an FFL dealer because they have the gun you want and you can't find a private seller that has it. Or the private seller you who has it is in a different state and the law requires you to transfer across state lines using an FFL. I believe FFL dealers are required to keep records of the transfers they have made for 20 years or somewhere in that range.

    2)No registry for either handguns or rifles. There are some differences in the law regarding interstate transfers of handguns vs. rifles.

    3)There technically isn't a gun registry in OR or WA. There is not a Federal gun registry either. I went round and round with the Oregon State Police (they do the background checks in Oregon) about the whole registry thing. There isn't anything that is called a firearm registry. However, when a gun is transferred via FFL or a private party calling in for a stolen gun check before purchasing from a private party that information is kept by the FFL. In Oregon OSP keeps records of transfers for up to 5 years and then supposedly gets rid of the information after that time.

    4)Again there is no registry where you can register your gun if for some reason you would feel compelled to do so. I would highly recommend that both the seller and the buyer end up with a bill of sale. It's a CYA for both parties involved.
     
  8. bjohnson

    bjohnson Shoreline New Member

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    oh, so if a cop runs it, it doesnt show the owner? got it! So helpful. So why do people even bother with FFl? just if they are worried if it gets stolen?
     
  9. bjohnson

    bjohnson Shoreline New Member

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    eriknemily Thanks for your input! :)
     
  10. John H

    John H Whatcom County Well-Known Member

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    In WA you are not required to register any firearm from a private sale.
     
  11. fd15k

    fd15k Tigard,OR Well-Known Member

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    One reason I buy certain guns from an FFL is when I intend to use those guns for self-defense. When buying such gun from a private seller you don't know if the gun has been altered, and generally manufacturer's liability can be waived.
     
  12. John H

    John H Whatcom County Well-Known Member

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    Last I heard it is now they have to keep them for good.



    Actually there is in WA, the DOL keeps a central data base only for FFL sales or transfers, I can't remember if it was just handguns or all guns.
     
  13. gunnails

    gunnails Hillsboro Active Member

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    Zepoll and (deleted member) like this.
  14. bjohnson

    bjohnson Shoreline New Member

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    So the "majority" purpose of FFL dealers are basically making sure guns get delievered to someone who can legally own it if buying from some entity that needs to ship the gun? ie. online store, out of state store, etc.
     
  15. fd15k

    fd15k Tigard,OR Well-Known Member

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    Section 12.7 Record retention period. The regulations provided under the NFA, specifically 27 CFR
    479.131, provide that the retention periods for required records shall be in conformity with the
    requirements specified under Part 478. As provided by Part 478:

    (1) Records of firearms transactions maintained by licensed importers and licensed manufacturers
    must maintain permanent records of the importation, manufacture, or other acquisition of
    firearms.197

    (2) Licensed importer’s and manufacturer’s records of sales or other disposition of firearms over
    the age of 20 years may be discarded.198

    (3) The A & D Records prepared by licensed dealers and licensed collectors over 20 years of age
    may be discarded.

    (4) All FFLs shall retain each Form 4473 and 4473(LV) for a period not less than 20 years from
    the date of sale or disposition of the firearms
    . Forms 4473 obtained by FFLs where the NICS
    check was initiated, but the sale, delivery, or transfer of the firearm was not completed must be
    retained for a period of not less than 5 years.199

    (5) Licensees are also required to retain the ATF Form 3310.4, Multiple Sales or Other Disposition
    of Pistols and Revolvers, as well as ATF Form 3310.11, Federal Firearms Licensee Theft/Loss
    Report, for a period of not less than 5 years.200

    (6) Retention of the records relating to transactions in semi-automatic assault weapons must be
    retained for a period not less 5 years

    http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5320-8/atf-p-5320-8-chapter-12.pdf


    In addition, under 27 CFR 478.122(d) licensed importers must maintain separate records of
    the sales or other dispositions of firearms made to nonlicensees. These records must be
    maintained in the form and manner prescribed by regulations at 27 CFR 478.124,
    478.125(e), and 478.125(i), with regard to firearms transaction records and records of
    firearms disposition. Under 27 CFR 478.129(d), the importer’s records of the sale or other
    disposition of firearms to nonlicensees must be retained for 20 years.


    http://www.atf.gov/publications/newsletters/ffl/ffl-newsletter-2011-09.pdf
     
  16. gunnails

    gunnails Hillsboro Active Member

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    You need to be a FFL if you are selling new unused guns.
     
  17. accessbob

    accessbob Molalla, OR 2A Supporter

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    An FFL (Federal Firearms License) is what a dealer must have. It just so happens that federal law requires you to use one for out of state transactions to try to ensure that the guns aren't being bought by bad guys. So, sending to an FFL at the buyer's location, allows them to do the mandatory background check before releasing it. But the FFL is not just for that purpose. It is something a dealer of firearms in the state you reside in must have to be a dealer and sell them, even if they didn't accept transfers from out of state.
     
  18. accessbob

    accessbob Molalla, OR 2A Supporter

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    Or used guns if your purpose is as a business.
     
  19. bjohnson

    bjohnson Shoreline New Member

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    Thanks you guys have cleared it all up for me!
     
  20. EMP9596

    EMP9596 Two Trees West of Camas, WA. Active Member

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    **Records of Twenty years for Reciept and Disposition, and even if you go out of business they must be retained, then discarded after twenty..


    ** Actually there is in WA, the DOL keeps a central data base only for FFL sales or transfers, I can't remember if it was just handguns or all guns.[/QUOTE]

    Pistol and Revolvers.