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Registering a lower reciever

Discussion in 'NFA Weapon Discussion' started by zerooption, Feb 17, 2013.

  1. zerooption

    zerooption Beaverton Member

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    I would like to own a SBR, I have a lower receiver that I just built and was wondering if I got it registered (filling out the forms, waiting for the Stamp,etc) then all I would need then is buy an appropriate upper? Could I use it with other SB uppers?
     
  2. TDH

    TDH Portland Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    yep- that sounds right. Once it's registered as an SBR you can put any length upper on it.

    I just sent off some form 1's last week, now the waiting begins :)
     
  3. JAFO

    JAFO OR, USA Silver Supporter Silver Supporter

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    The only issue some folks worry about is if you only have the tax stamp for one lower and you have multiple short uppers and also at least one non-SBR lower that doesn't have an upper. They fear getting charged because of constructive possession with the intent to build a short barreled rifle. The consensus seems to be that as long as you have as many or more 16+" uppers as lowers you will be fine.

    Personally I doubt anyone would get charged unless The Man is after you for some other reason. Don't take anything I say as legal advice though. I don't have the credentials to give it.
     
  4. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    You could have 1 SBR lower, 5 short uppers, a rifle lower with no uppers in the house and be legal.

    You have proof of no "intent" since you have a legal use for each of the short upper.......
     
  5. JAFO

    JAFO OR, USA Silver Supporter Silver Supporter

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    :rofl1:
     
  6. waltermitty

    waltermitty seattle Active Member

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    i'm presuming that you're thinking of an AR, yes? not all lowers are firearms
     
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  7. Andy

    Andy Aurora, OR Active Member

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    I may be going through this process soon too. In addition to the form, do you have to have the lower engraved with your name or trust name?
     
  8. iamme

    iamme Lane County Well-Known Member

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    Lower must be engraved with the manufacturers info, on a form 1 that's you
     
  9. Andy

    Andy Aurora, OR Active Member

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    I guess I should have been little more descript. I didn't build my lower; I bought it pre-built. I have modified nothing on it. I just want to use it with a pistol upper that I currently have mounted to a pistol lower.

    So according to instructions 2i, since this was fully assembled by the MFG, I enter the original information and serial number in secton 4 of the form. That would mean that I do NOT have to have it engraved, right?
     
  10. iamme

    iamme Lane County Well-Known Member

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    Ugh read- you don't register a pistol with NFA. Unless the mfg registered as an sbr then NO they haven't built it either. Form 1 is an..... APPLICATION TO MAKE. You in this case are the manufacturer of said class3 item. Stop confusing/mixing pistol with sbr as they are completely different. It's been said before- if you're making it it's your info. If you take it to a dealer to register they engrave their info then form 4 to you
     
  11. Andy

    Andy Aurora, OR Active Member

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    Ugh. Read.

    I have 1 lower with a stock on it. I did not do anything to it. I want to register it as a SBR.
    I have 1 pistol upper that is currently on 1 pistol lower. When the tax stamp comes back I will put the pistol upper on the SBR, leaving the pistol lower with no friend.

    I am NOT REGISTERING A PISTOL!

    Now, back to my question. The instructions say "i. Serial Numbers and other Markings. If an existing firearm is being modified into an NFA firearm, enter the existing serial number of the firearm into item 4g and the name and address of the original manufacturer into item 4a. Do not Alter or Modify the Existing Serial Number . If the NFA firearm is being made from parts, your name and address are to be entered into 4a and a serial number you create is to be entered into item 4g."

    So, if I am using the original serial number and original manufacturer on the form, how is it that I engrave my own name and serial number?
     
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  12. iamme

    iamme Lane County Well-Known Member

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    BECAUSE YOU ARE MAKING A NEW FIREARM. You can keep being told this but until you get it it's pointless. YOU ARE MAKING THE SBR. yes it is against the law to remove or alter original markings. But unless RRA/Bushmaster/Colt/BCM/DD etc sold the receiver originally as an SBR their markings are their for the title 1 firearm they manufactured.
     
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  13. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    I came on here to support iamme statements but after reading the Form 1, http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-5320-1.pdf I am more confused. I have always read/assumed what he posted was correct. After reading the information on the Form 1 "application to make and register a firearm" I am not sure.

    i. Serial Numbers and other Markings. If an existing firearm is being modified into an NFA firearm, enter the existing serial number of the firearm into item 4g and the name and address of the original manufacturer into item 4a. Do not Alter or Modify the Existing Serial Number . If the NFA firearm is being made from parts, your name and address are to be entered into 4a and a serial number you create is to be entered into item 4g.

    According to this (which is right on the form) if you are modifying a firearm into a NFA item you enter the original information on the form...............
     
  14. iamme

    iamme Lane County Well-Known Member

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    OK after reading and re-reading that I take it this way: If you're using your LMT lower to make an SBR (remember you aren't making it from an existing firearm- if your upper is already on there you're screwed), so using your lower that ALREADY HAS A SERIAL # you use that serial # in 4g, your info still goes in 4a as YOU are the original manufacture of the SBR (which this form is for).
    Now if you are using an 80% lower, or your form 1 is for a can all of the information will be yours. The big point it's making is DO NOT ALTER THE EXISTING INFO ON THE LOWER AS THAT IS A VIOLATION.
    i. Serial Numbers and other Markings. If an existing firearm is being modified into an NFA firearm, enter the existing serial number of the firearm into item 4g and the name and address of the original manufacturer into item 4a. Do not Alter or Modify the Existing Serial Number . If the NFA firearm is being made from parts, your name and address are to be entered into 4a and a serial number you create is to be entered into item 4g.

    NWcid- what say you on my take on it? It looks confusing as hell, but most things are in ATF land. part of this also has to do with ATF letters both to people and to FFL's on the issue.
     
  15. Andy

    Andy Aurora, OR Active Member

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    I've had enough of your rudeness. I didn't come here for that. I'll take my questions to another forum.
     
  16. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    Wow this has become crazy after doing some searching.


    So there are letters that say both are correct at different times. That is the ATF for you, depends on who is answering the question.

    In the case of physically reading the instructions on the Form 1 I would say if you are turning a "firearm" into an NFA item that all the original markings will work as identifying marks. The reason I say this is it is one sentence starting with "if an existing firearm"......... But I do understand what you are saying.


    So here is one, Current ATF Marking requirements for NFA Items...
    Here is another that states both sides, SilencerTalk ? View topic - SBR MARKINGS ATF UPDATE

    There are tons more with the same info.



    I think here is one comment that really sums things up,

    I think the reason it's been told both way is b/c it really doesn't matter.

    If you don't have the marking on it........

    If you have your paperwork with you, Form 1, the guy who would likely end up checking it, a cop somewhere, could simply see the zserial number on the Form 1 matches the serial number on the Gun.

    Problem solved.

    Especailly since the officer likely will know less about Form1/form4/ NFA/ class3 whatever you want to call it................then YOU.
     
  17. Tornado-Technologies

    Tornado-Technologies Hillsboro Active Member

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    I do NFA stuff for a living and we process paperwork on a regular basis. So I like to think that I speak with some authority on the subject.
    Contrary to what's listed above here's the straight dope:
    Let say you have a Bushmaster stripped lower and wanted to registered it as an SBR on an ATF Form 1.
    Your name, your trust, LLC or Corp name, will be entered in Box 3B. You will need to engrave this also with your city and state either on the lower or barrel of the firearm. Box 4A will be Bushmaster. For 4G it's customary to enter the existing serial number of the firearm. The instructions state you have to, but there's no legal justification behind that. You can use any serial number you want. If you choose something other than what's on there already you will need to engrave that onto the lower.
    In box 4h, I would state "SBR manufactured from Bushmaster stripped lower."

    The purpose of having Bushmasters name on the form is to aid in identification and tracing. For example, if someone was the executor for an estate for example, trying to locate and NFA firearm, they know exactly what to look for.

    I've seen the several branches of Government claiming to have spoke to the Firearms Technology Branch and that you don't need to add markings. This is in direct opposition to FTB's own statements and letters, not to mention being at odd with what is actually written in the law and is plain wrong.
    I suspect in the case of the one on silencer talk, the guy answering the email called FTB and asked, if an individual is making a firearm does he need to engrave markings. The FTB answer would have been "no" as he would have assumed that the question was referring to Title 1 firearms and not NFA firearms. I suspect the .Gov person that contacted them probably doesn't know an SBR from a hole in the ground, hence the confusion.
    If anyone wants to argue he point about the marking requirement, I'd be happy to list the appropriate Federal code requiring it.
     
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  18. j4545

    j4545 WA Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Great thread and very educational.
     
  19. SG85

    SG85 503 Member

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    I did this process 2 months ago and am still waiting for my stamp.

    The lower you have is the part that is to be registered. When filling out the form 1 use the serial number from the lower, don't change anything as this will be the part the ATF registers.

    Once all your paperwork is approved (6-7 months later) the lower you have can be attached to an upper that is shorter than 16" but no shorter than the length listed on the form 1.

    It's not overly hard just tedious.

    Good luck!
     
  20. iamme

    iamme Lane County Well-Known Member

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    Again not true on the no shorter. An SBR is defined simply by <16"/26"
     
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