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Red dots over rated?

Discussion in 'Gear & Accessories' started by Markjz, Dec 15, 2010.

  1. Markjz

    Markjz Longview, WA Member

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    does any one else feel this way? I used to like them early on. but as I have improved my skills with iron I find red dots to be limiting. I've come to the point where I can raise my rife up and achieve a proper stock weld just as fast as I can with dots. also isn't "reflex" shooting a sure way achieve collateral damage or friendly fire?

    also using small aperture type sights provides a much sharper sight picture, (light through a tiny hole does magical things, even for 20/20 vision) and gets me much tighter groupings.

    last, durability. I would never want to depend on one as even the best EOtech
    can be rendered useless by a stray blast of dust or dropping it in the dirt.

    So are we just kidding ourselves and falling for the shiny high tech appeal. sure I would still put one on a hand gun any day, but for a rifle I think I will go back to good old iron.

    I'm not judging any one's choice for what they are comfortable with. only you know what works for you. (Dawning flame proof suit)
     
  2. The Quiet Man

    The Quiet Man rural Washington County, Oregon Active Member

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    No, they are not over rated... but they are not the answer for all shooting or circumstances, either. I have always owned and liked aperture sights. I still do but my aging eyes don't work the same way they used to. I can still shoot aperture sights better than most open iron sights, but my ability to focus with any iron sights isn't what it used to be. For precise shooting (short or long range), I now do best with a good scope. For quick accurate shooting out to 100 or so yards, I really like red dots. My wooded property offers few, if any, longer shots so the red dots on our defensive carbines are highly appropriate. The best idea is to have weapons with scopes, open iron, aperture, reflex, and red dots. Then pick what works best that day :)

    Your observations are excellent, however. Shooting well with iron sights is a valuable skill that makes working with any "advanced sighting devices" even easier when you opt to use them. When all else fails, iron is always there.
     
  3. eldbillbo

    eldbillbo clackamas New world samurai and a redneck none the less Bronze Supporter

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    everything has its advantages and disadvantages

    and it all boils down to personal preference and what works best for the operator

    any one using a red dot or even a scope should always train with irons just in case as they are the most trust worthy

    thats why BUISs are so popular
     
  4. Chameleon

    Chameleon Central Oregon Member

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    I use a scope that's zero'd in to 100 hundred yards with a bullet drop compensator up to 500 yards on my AR. However, I also have a red dot mounted on a 45 degree offset on my rail zero'd into 50 yards. It sits right behind the scope.
     
  5. absoluterik07

    absoluterik07 Salem, OR Member

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    Red dots, especially high quality ones such as an eotech are great for close up, high stress situations. For example, if you have the need to get on target fast but slip up and can't get a proper sight picture with your irons, having a two eyes open dot that is still at your target can be extremely handy. On my AR I would have my eotech zeroed in at about 25 yards and my irons at 100. This allowed for nice quick aiming in cqb situations with the red dot and with my eotech I could cowitness my buis so a longer distance shot was still fairly simple just looking through the sight. Personally I prefer irons but for those in law enforcement and such I think that red dots are great tools to keep our officers alive and on top of the game when time is a factor and long distance firefights aren't as prevalent. My $.02
     
  6. rodell

    rodell Newcastle, WA Active Member

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    Red dots are all about speed and repeatability when there isn't a consistent technique, for whatever reason.

    I can shoot a peep sight very accurately, but I can't do it fast. It all depends on what we call "accurate", I suppose. Deer, man, or dots?
     
  7. Ben Beckerich

    Ben Beckerich NW Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    eotech and "high quality" really dont go well together.. ask anyone who's served in a combat-arms unit. aimpoint and trij are the only two options.. and are obviously better and lesser suited for their respective intent.
     
  8. PDXGS

    PDXGS Aloha... yes, Aloha, Oregon Member

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    Try shooting with your irons while on your side, on the ground, in the mud in low light.
    Personally, I prefer a hybrid system like the 3x or 4x ACOGs. That said, there's no substitute for being proficient with iron sights out to 600...Highpower matches are a great way to learn and keep sharp with military irons.
     
  9. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    Like many have stated like any other sight/device they have their place and use.

    I have a few and like them on the guns they are on but wouldnt use them on others. I have scopes on some but would not use them on others. I have open sights on some but wouldnt use them on others. So it just depends on the use.

    I have one buddy that has some eye sight problems and he has a very hard time using open sights of any kind but does well with dots........
     
  10. kickstart my heart

    kickstart my heart South King County, WA Active Member

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    I use to be all about iron sights until I put an Eotech on one of my rifles, and now love it. No, they aren't overrated. I'm fairly young with decent enough eye sight, but in a low light situation (and doesn't even have to be that dark), that black front sight is sometimes hard to pick up. Plus, with the center dot on my Eotech, I'm more accurate from out to 100 yards because it's smaller than my front sight. I also shoot faster with it. That being said, they're great, but aren't as reliable as iron sights, but what is? I have a back up flip sight incase my optic goes toast or runs out of juice. My current love affair is with my trijicon accupoint on one of my other rifles. 1-4 power adjustable. 1 power close quarters, and 4 power out far. No goofy bs trying to train my eye to get use to an Acog when I'm aiming at something across the room distance (and for the money, I ain't impressed). Plus it's fiber optic, so no battery to die, and has a tritium insert for night time.

    Too each their own though.
     
  11. Dyjital

    Dyjital Albany, Ore Flavorite Member Bronze Supporter

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    My red dot has a 5MOA dot. Compared side by side with my MBus which appear to have about a 10MOA... do the math.
     
  12. Ben Beckerich

    Ben Beckerich NW Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    wow.. 5 MOA is gigantic. i wont go above 2
     
  13. browntown

    browntown Salem, Oregon, United States Active Member

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    ghost ring / apertures are my preferred rifle thing under 100 yards. then fixed power scopes. Nothing worse than being on a hunt, and messing with the scope while getting ready to shoot.
     
  14. The Cheese

    The Cheese somewhere special Member

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    Had a couple eotechs and got rid of them. They are good for plinking and close stuff. Even at 100yds they aren't too shabby. But I just don't see their usefulness past anything other than really close stuff or entry type things (inside of structures and what have you). Just my opinion. I have a couple 1-4x scopes and I love them. Still very fast on low, but with 4x they are quite capable of hitting targets at 2-300yds quickly. Much faster than irons or 1x red dots. They aren't as fast as a dot on really really close shots, but I think its a marginal difference. I still like red dots and have one on my 22 upper, and will be putting one on the pistol cal carbine at some point. But for "go to" guns or guns I use for Practical rifle I have 1-4x scopes. If I had the money I would probably put acogs on, but they are a bit out of my reach at the moment.

    Really it just comes down to what works for you. And the only way to get there is try before you buy are trial and error, which was the case for me.
     
  15. Unka-Boo

    Unka-Boo Milwaukie Active Member

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    Heck...I'm 35 and agree with this statement...:laugh:

    I ran irons for YEARS @ PR, didn't see the need for a scope....until I bought an Aimpoint and threw it on one of my ARs....times increased dramatically.

    Now, is a red dot perfect? No...they can and will fail. Learn to use the irons, learn them well, then go by the fancy sight.

    FWIW, I was making hits @ 300 yards on the flash targets with a micro dot mounted to my AK, so I wouldn't call them useless at longer ranges.
     
  16. Ben Beckerich

    Ben Beckerich NW Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    this is a good point- if you have any kind of eye problem, RDSs are hella useful. astigmatism, cross dominant, not least of all. either of these can keep you from getting a great and repeatable sight picture with ghost ring and post. BAC is almost impossible with either of these with irons.
     
  17. rayd8

    rayd8 Formerly Portland, now Alabama! Member

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  18. KalamaMark

    KalamaMark Kalama Wa Well-Known Member

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    Yes.
     
  19. Dyjital

    Dyjital Albany, Ore Flavorite Member Bronze Supporter

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    I was able to finally go shoot my red dot today and really enjoy it over my scope. I can shoot with both eyes open easier and it is easy for my 11 year old to shoot
     
  20. Markjz

    Markjz Longview, WA Member

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    lots of good info. I will need a quick release rail before I welcome it back onto my rifle. if SHTF and your in a fight wile it's raining that shiny object is not going to save you. but what are the odds of rain around here.