Red dots on rifles.

Discussion in 'Rifle Discussion' started by JRuby, Nov 2, 2018.

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  1. JRuby

    JRuby
    St. Helens Oregon
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    I had been feeling a bit better after throwing my back out so I went shooting today. I had put a nice red dot sight on one of my ARs and was shooting it at the 100 yard range. I believe that red dots greatly reduce the capabilities of a good rifle as I was having problems getting a good point of aim on the target. I think RDSs have thier places on shotguns and short range (about 50 yards) on pistols. I know they are popular but comparing that RDS to my Buris Mtac 1-4 was no comparison. Up close and quick a RDS is hard to beat but greatly limits the rifles distances. What are others thoughts on this - maybe my expectations are wrong.
     
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  2. No_Regerts

    No_Regerts
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    Just my opinion, but a low power scope/optic is superior to a red dot in every way other than clearing houses. Even then, you can clear houses by point-shooting.
     
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  3. ConcernedCitizen

    ConcernedCitizen
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    Like No_Regerts, I'm a big fan of LPVO for most applications.

    I think you might be limiting the red dot more than necessary, though. I have a 3.25 MOA red dot on my 10.5" AR pistol, and have no issues hitting steel silhouettes at 200 yards. It doesn't shoot great groups from a bench, but is more than capable for most practical applications.

    FWIW, I have the same red dot on my .22LR AR pistol, and it also has no problem at 200 yards once you figure out the holdover.

    I do prefer magnified optics on most of my rifles, however.
     
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  4. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki
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    My experience bares this out as well, One of the big reasons I run an ACOG, its really the best of all worlds, from CQB to about 800 meters ( if the rifle has that range) so it can fill most roles very well! There are some options that give almost the same fetures as the ACOG but with out the cost!

    Give a shout out to @LuckyGS for options on the ACOG and other Optic options!
     
  5. JRuby

    JRuby
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    I am not a great shot but I have been shooting a few decades
    If I could get 200 yards that would really make me happy. I hit the target with the red dot I have but it looks more like a shotgun pattern than a grouping. I am figuring if it's more than 3moa then I am not impressed with it. I am not happy with a group that a pie plate could cover. I can do better than that with irons.
    I will try next time I am out but the vortex strike eagle is looking more likely. Will be about five bills to change over.
     
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  6. No_Regerts

    No_Regerts
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    I have an Aimpoint PRO on an LE6920. Its easy to hit 8 inch playes at 300 yards, but thats a white painted plate and its easy to see. More naturally colored targets are more difficult to pick up. Just another reason I like a few x.
     
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  7. KKG

    KKG
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    You didn't say what size the dot is so it could be simply a matter of needing a smaller dot. I have an Eotech with a 1MOA dot and I have no problem hitting steel out to 500 yards. I have another brand with a 7.5MOA dot that is only good for the close in stuff. :)
     
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  8. JRuby

    JRuby
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    I believe the dot is 2 moa
    I had a vx2 1-4 I moved from this AR over to my Fal.when I went to the red dot. On the AR that little 1-4 shot really well. I am using the RV1 red dot on this AR now. It seems to be a well built optic and reviews are good on it Even if I swap optics on the AR I will use that red dot on a AR pistol eventually
     
  9. Cerberus Group

    Cerberus Group
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    Folks with average eye sight, with a 2 moa dot 200 yards is about as far as a unmagnified dot is used...hard to pick out fine detail for threat assessment at that distance.

    I recommend a magnified optic 1-4, 1-6, or 1-8 with a combination etched and lighted reticle for detail assessment at longer distances.

    I also recommend not getting a magnifier for a regular RD. They are cumbersome, add extra weight, and when shifted out of alignment with the RD, they block your field of view on your right.

    The theory is good, but the reality of their use lacks.
     
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  10. orygun

    orygun
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    I have a Leupold VX-R with the Firedot reticle. While it's probably not the type of sight the OP is referring to, during certain lighting conditions the duplex reticle disappears in the darkness and the illuminated dot what is used for aiming. Like the reticle the dot doesn't change size when zooming the scope, but it does seem to grow larger as the intensity is turned up. On all but the brightest days I can have the power low enough that the dot is small and sharp enough that I believe I couldn't shoot more accurately with a fine crosshair reticle.
     
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  11. Boboclown

    Boboclown
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    Such as primary arms, the PO 4x17 (though a much wider field of view with 57.8 ft at 100 yards). Then there's the Steiner M332, Burris AR-536, and so on and so forth.

    But not a lot of them use tritium or fiber like the ACOG. Of course if you ask me how much I like the fiber during daylight, ask me how much duct tape I've used so far...
     
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  12. powermad

    powermad
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    My groupings are embarrassing with a 2MOA RD. Astigmatism doesn't help though.
    Even when using the rear BUS to sharpen the dot it's still a shotgun pattern for me.

    After getting and using a Primary Arms ACSS 1x8 on my SR-762 I am sold on LPVO
    On 1x it is just like the RD, both eyes open and I can clearly see the chevron and horseshoe on or off in most lighting.

    I'll be going with a 1x6 on my AR15 and selling the RD and magnifier.
     
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  13. nwslopoke

    nwslopoke
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    I can't argue the experts but for me if I am not shooting at a small target and also shooting within 100 yrds the RD is faster. If I compare looking the a 3x fixed sight or a RD at an 8" plate at 75-100yrds the 3x takes longer.

    I don't have a modern optic to compare like a 1x6. But most the distannces available to me are well under 200 yards. Its hard to find a clear 100 yards.
     
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  14. Jeedia

    Jeedia
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    Also remember that your dot is 2MOA. If your rifle is a 1 moa gun and the red dot is a 2moa the best you can probably do is most likely 3 moa. Red dots are designed for fast sight alignment on target. Human sized targets. They will never group well. If you want a optic that will get a variable zoom.
     
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  15. Reno911

    Reno911
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    This is a hard comparison.

    A red dot is definitely inferior to a magnifyed optic.

    I think red dots shine brighter when compared to iron sights on a rifle platform.

    That’s were I would say they are superior.
     
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  16. ConcernedCitizen

    ConcernedCitizen
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    Excellent comparison.

    Faster than iron sights, but less precise than magnified optics.

    I also find they give you better field of view than both iron sights and magnified optics.
     
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  17. Boboclown

    Boboclown
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    A RD is definitely faster. The purpose of a low power fixed optic is to have no more than the necessary weight needed for the magnification, as well as being able to shoot at longer distances with better performance up close compared to high powered optics.

    My biggest complaint with speed is less magnification and more field of view. They don’t get very wide field of views. PO scopes do have wide views (57-58 ft at 100 yards depending on model), but there’s always the “combloc” stigma and quality (they’re better than people give em credit for). But that’s only marginally faster.
     
  18. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf
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    Red dots are probably fine on carbines.. I prefer irons though.
     
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  19. aksu747

    aksu747
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    I prefer a standard scope if we are talking optics, however I prefer iron sights over any optics, I have yet to miss a target with old fashioned iron sights whether that be on a rifle or a handgun. I do have above average eye sight though that the Lord blessed me with. (above 20/20 from what I was told)
    Can't say much for shotguns though, they kinda bore me except for the nfa double barrels like the Auto-Burglar.
     
  20. Reno911

    Reno911
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    Why not have all three?

    One with an optic, a red dot, and irons.

    That’s a good rounded compromise to this conundrum.
     
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