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Bit of a year in review. This idea has intrigued me as aimpoint came out with their S-1 sight. In the past I had used my Saiga 12 with a red dot but decided to really try it this year with something more traditional. I wanted a mount that would get the red dot relatively low on the gun. This one in a Scalarworks Sync for the Benelli M2 however a few companies make similar ones.

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I think a closed emitter is key, as it keeps water out of the emitter and allows mud to be cleaned by just wiping it off as opposed to open emitters that need extra work.
I also like the bonus of the dot being similar to my rifle. I have an aimpoint on my AR and its very instinctive to pick up (though I run a high mount on it) something im already use to. And would be for anyone that has shot a red dot before.

The dot is no replacement for practice and good fundamentals, but I find it really helps when the gun isn't mounted consistently. Simply focus in the bird, let your hand eye coordination take over swinging the gun into place, and as the dot covers the bird pull the trigger. As long as the red dot is on the bird when the trigger is pulled you will hit it regardless of where the dot is inside the sight (parallax isn't really an issue inside the range waterfalling takes place)
Some have said in the past the ed dot obstructs their surroundings.

This may be true with one eye closed but if you shoot with both eyes open it's not a big deal at all. The mount and red dot add only a few oz to the back of the gun, so it still balances nicely. The big issue is most shotguns have their own footprint for drilled and tapped receivers making it a bit difficult to find a mount that will fit the gun and still keep the optic relatively low.

Here's a few pictures of some sucess on the year. Most shots were 25-30 yards over decoys though I was pleasantly surprised hitting a longer passing shots to be no issue.

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Do you need a red dot to kill birds, absolutely not. However, this is an option that I feel has not gotten a a chance to succeed due to not giving it a fair chance in the past. It often something thrown together and not given more than a hunt before people gives up on it. Personally, the mount and dot cost $250, the mount is very high quality and the holosuns are durable for the money (though made in china may be an issue). It offers benefits for new shooters to get use to consistently mounting the gun, and very effective if given a chance.
 
Neat, I haven't seen too many people give it a fair chance either. Do you have any eye issues you were hoping the Red dot would help fix? or just testing it out?
 
Neat, I haven't seen too many people give it a fair chance either. Do you have any eye issues you were hoping the Red dot would help fix? or just testing it out?
No eye issues, mainly just testing. Got my interest when aimpoint explained that shooting a moving target is the same whether it be a shotgun or rifle. I shoot red dots on rifles a lot and I have noticed a difference in hitting birds this year.

I like how you can have a little bit of slop when mounting the gun the perfect position isn't always possible when snap shooting.
 
Battery operated sights didn't used to be legal in Oregon. When did that change?
I think your mis informed. The wording is quite poorly written.

 
I think your mis informed. The wording is quite poorly written.

 
I think your mis informed. The wording is quite poorly written.

By "didn't used to be" I meant late 80's.




P
 
Bit of a year in review. This idea has intrigued me as aimpoint came out with their S-1 sight. In the past I had used my Saiga 12 with a red dot but decided to really try it this year with something more traditional. I wanted a mount that would get the red dot relatively low on the gun. This one in a Scalarworks Sync for the Benelli M2 however a few companies make similar ones.

View attachment 1115234

View attachment 1115235

I think a closed emitter is key, as it keeps water out of the emitter and allows mud to be cleaned by just wiping it off as opposed to open emitters that need extra work.
I also like the bonus of the dot being similar to my rifle. I have an aimpoint on my AR and its very instinctive to pick up (though I run a high mount on it) something im already use to. And would be for anyone that has shot a red dot before.

The dot is no replacement for practice and good fundamentals, but I find it really helps when the gun isn't mounted consistently. Simply focus in the bird, let your hand eye coordination take over swinging the gun into place, and as the dot covers the bird pull the trigger. As long as the red dot is on the bird when the trigger is pulled you will hit it regardless of where the dot is inside the sight (parallax isn't really an issue inside the range waterfalling takes place)
Some have said in the past the ed dot obstructs their surroundings.

This may be true with one eye closed but if you shoot with both eyes open it's not a big deal at all. The mount and red dot add only a few oz to the back of the gun, so it still balances nicely. The big issue is most shotguns have their own footprint for drilled and tapped receivers making it a bit difficult to find a mount that will fit the gun and still keep the optic relatively low.

Here's a few pictures of some sucess on the year. Most shots were 25-30 yards over decoys though I was pleasantly surprised hitting a longer passing shots to be no issue.

View attachment 1115236

View attachment 1115237
View attachment 1115238

View attachment 1115239

View attachment 1115240

View attachment 1115241
Do you need a red dot to kill birds, absolutely not. However, this is an option that I feel has not gotten a a chance to succeed due to not giving it a fair chance in the past. It often something thrown together and not given more than a hunt before people gives up on it. Personally, the mount and dot cost $250, the mount is very high quality and the holosuns are durable for the money (though made in china may be an issue). It offers benefits for new shooters to get use to consistently mounting the gun, and very effective if given a chance.
Thanks for sharing, and being a guinea pig for us NWFA wingshooters!

Maybe a silly question without actually doing the geometry, i.e., MOA, shot distance, shot spread, etc. I'm thinking about a crossing shot on a bird, at say 30 yards. Are you saying that as long as the dot is on the bird, and the bird is in the window, you'll knock it down? If so, I can see how this would be a great tool for a beginner.

It sounds like you're not a new shooter. As an experienced shot, can you judge whether you shot better with the red dot than without?

And, congrats on some good hunting this season!
 
Thanks for sharing, and being a guinea pig for us NWFA wingshooters!

Maybe a silly question without actually doing the geometry, i.e., MOA, shot distance, shot spread, etc. I'm thinking about a crossing shot on a bird, at say 30 yards. Are you saying that as long as the dot is on the bird, and the bird is in the window, you'll knock it down? If so, I can see how this would be a great tool for a beginner.

It sounds like you're not a new shooter. As an experienced shot, can you judge whether you shot better with the red dot than without?

And, congrats on some good hunting this season!
Apologies for the long response:

Depending on bird speed yes. At 30 yards I just keep the dot right on the neck and make sure I follow through. I mainly hunt over decoys and bird shooting at those distances its dot on bird and continue to swing. The key is to still focus on the bird until you see the dot at the base of its neck. For the fast crossers yes, you may still need to lead them. I do still shoot off of 'instinct' in which case I notice the edge of the optic cutting the bird in half (which worked great for a reference on future shots).

It's a 2 MOA dot and when I patterned it at 40 yards, I have some shot outside the 30in ring (#2 shot and more like a 20in ring for 7.5, choke it's just a factory Benelli crio modified) I was mainly looking for patter density and did not measure, I can do so next time if you're interested. From my experience and what I've read, most wing shooters tend to overlead birds especially when shot is going 1500fps +.

For beginners yes, I see it being a great tool. It builds up mounting the gun the same way to build repeatability they can see as the dot should present the same. And if they get a poor mount its easily correctable or used because as long as the dot is present its clear where the shot will go. Thus, simplifying the things, they need to focus on. I also see it being good for those that are use to shooting a red dot or those with poor eyesight. Just look what they do in Europe on driven game, the red dot dominates because its quick to pick up and swing on target. That advantage translates over to wingshooting for the same reasons you still need to do your part but it's an option over a more traditional rib or bead.

I shot better these past few seasons with the dot then I have any other (first year with the Benelli set up). I freely admit I am not a big shotgun shooter (just 15-20 +/- hunts a year and a round or two of clays before the season starts) but I give it credit to helping with my sucess. It has definitely improved my hit probability on shots I wouldn't normally hit to include range. I don't necessarily see this as something for those who are already very experienced shooting a shotgun (actively shoot club trap/ skeet, shoot 5+ cases of ammo during waterfowl season) as they have already put in the time and muscle memory (could be wrong but it's hard to change a man's mind on something that works for him, that and hunters being slow to adopt new technologies).
 
Thanks for sharing, and being a guinea pig for us NWFA wingshooters!

Maybe a silly question without actually doing the geometry, i.e., MOA, shot distance, shot spread, etc. I'm thinking about a crossing shot on a bird, at say 30 yards. Are you saying that as long as the dot is on the bird, and the bird is in the window, you'll knock it down? If so, I can see how this would be a great tool for a beginner.

It sounds like you're not a new shooter. As an experienced shot, can you judge whether you shot better with the red dot than without?

And, congrats on some good hunting this season!
As a follow up to that response if you want to meet up and give it a try let me know, their are a couple ranges close. or the mountains aren't too far away.
 
Apologies for the long response:

Depending on bird speed yes. At 30 yards I just keep the dot right on the neck and make sure I follow through. I mainly hunt over decoys and bird shooting at those distances its dot on bird and continue to swing. The key is to still focus on the bird until you see the dot at the base of its neck. For the fast crossers yes, you may still need to lead them. I do still shoot off of 'instinct' in which case I notice the edge of the optic cutting the bird in half (which worked great for a reference on future shots).

It's a 2 MOA dot and when I patterned it at 40 yards, I have some shot outside the 30in ring (#2 shot and more like a 20in ring for 7.5, choke it's just a factory Benelli crio modified) I was mainly looking for patter density and did not measure, I can do so next time if you're interested. From my experience and what I've read, most wing shooters tend to overlead birds especially when shot is going 1500fps +.

For beginners yes, I see it being a great tool. It builds up mounting the gun the same way to build repeatability they can see as the dot should present the same. And if they get a poor mount its easily correctable or used because as long as the dot is present its clear where the shot will go. Thus, simplifying the things, they need to focus on. I also see it being good for those that are use to shooting a red dot or those with poor eyesight. Just look what they do in Europe on driven game, the red dot dominates because its quick to pick up and swing on target. That advantage translates over to wingshooting for the same reasons you still need to do your part but it's an option over a more traditional rib or bead.

I shot better these past few seasons with the dot then I have any other (first year with the Benelli set up). I freely admit I am not a big shotgun shooter (just 15-20 +/- hunts a year and a round or two of clays before the season starts) but I give it credit to helping with my sucess. It has definitely improved my hit probability on shots I wouldn't normally hit to include range. I don't necessarily see this as something for those who are already very experienced shooting a shotgun (actively shoot club trap/ skeet, shoot 5+ cases of ammo during waterfowl season) as they have already put in the time and muscle memory (could be wrong but it's hard to change a man's mind on something that works for him, that and hunters being slow to adopt new technologies).
Thanks for the thorough response. I'm most intrigued with the "put the duck in the ring and get a hit" aspect. I understand that wouldn't work for all scenarios, but likely it would for many. When I take newbies sometimes, their poor or mixed results can hamper enthusiasm for future outings.

I wonder if a beginner could benefit from the RDS initially, and then drop it as they developed mastery. That might take lots of repetitions. I'd guess the illuminated dot would be much easier to pick up than a bead, particularly in low light. I agree there's likely little benefit for long-time shooters.
 
Thanks for the thorough response. I'm most intrigued with the "put the duck in the ring and get a hit" aspect. I understand that wouldn't work for all scenarios, but likely it would for many. When I take newbies sometimes, their poor or mixed results can hamper enthusiasm for future outings.

I wonder if a beginner could benefit from the RDS initially, and then drop it as they developed mastery. That might take lots of repetitions. I'd guess the illuminated dot would be much easier to pick up than a bead, particularly in low light. I agree there's likely little benefit for long-time shooters.
Definitly could drop it after consistency is built up. I also like that I have the same presentation across all platforms now.
 

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