Recoil magazine is apparently "Anti-Gun"

[Dave Workman]

With all this talk of zumbo's "perceived gaffe", I think it's important to be reminded of what the clown said:

Yeah, he wrote that stuff. Never claimed he didn't.

My remark involving the "perceived gaffe" was intended to be all-inclusive; that is, a lot of people say things that others leap upon as though it were heresy.

So Zumbo didn't care for AR15s. He's changed his opinion. He made a mistake.

You've never made a mistake? Never done anything you regret? The difference between most of us and Zumbo is that we don't have somebody trying to remind us and the rest of the educated world about it everyday for the rest of our lives, just to feel somehow better than Zumbo. After a while, you've got to wonder "what's the point?"

 

[coctailer]

Yeah, he wrote that stuff. Never claimed he didn't.

My remark involving the "perceived gaffe" was intended to be all-inclusive; that is, a lot of people say things that others leap upon as though it were heresy.

So Zumbo didn't care for AR15s. He's changed his opinion. He made a mistake.

You've never made a mistake? Never done anything you regret? The difference between most of us and Zumbo is that we don't have somebody trying to remind us and the rest of the educated world about it everyday for the rest of our lives, just to feel somehow better than Zumbo. After a while, you've got to wonder "what's the point?"

If Zumbo didn't get kicked in the nuts for his comment, would he still hate ARs now?

If everyone patted him on the back for his comments, how would he represent the Black Rifle community now?

 

[Mason3379]

I am hoping that the people that place their ads with this magazine can put it out of print. I read today that YHM has pulled all ads from the magazine and will not be renewing. I hope more manufactures follow suite.

 

[civilian75]

The HK 4.6 x 30mm exist only because FN beat them with the FiveSeven and they can't take it. Here is my reference

But I digress. I will let you guys go back to topic.

 

[AMProducts]

Yeah, he wrote that stuff. Never claimed he didn't.

My remark involving the "perceived gaffe" was intended to be all-inclusive; that is, a lot of people say things that others leap upon as though it were heresy.

So Zumbo didn't care for AR15s. He's changed his opinion. He made a mistake.

You've never made a mistake? Never done anything you regret? The difference between most of us and Zumbo is that we don't have somebody trying to remind us and the rest of the educated world about it everyday for the rest of our lives, just to feel somehow better than Zumbo. After a while, you've got to wonder "what's the point?"

I think you're being more apologetic here than is really warranted. If a media figure applied the same context to women or minorities that Zumbo did to a rifle, they would never work again.

I have made plenty of mistakes in my life, said a few things that didn't come out so well either. Thankfully I made those mistakes in my youth when no one was watching. Since then I've learned to control my temper and think about what I am about to say. I am glad your friend also learned from his mistake, but just because something was a mistake does not mean there are no penalties.

One of those things that sets humans apart from the animals is the ability not only to learn from our mistakes, but the mistakes fellow humans make. This is a lesson that should not be lost on Jim Zumbo, Jerry Tsai, or any other "gun writer".

 

[Dave Workman]

If Zumbo didn't get kicked in the nuts for his comment, would he still hate ARs now?

If everyone patted him on the back for his comments, how would he represent the Black Rifle community now?

Well, he doesn't "represent" the "black rifle community." You do.

 

[Dave Workman]

I think you're being more apologetic here than is really warranted. If a media figure applied the same context to women or minorities that Zumbo did to a rifle, they would never work again.

I have made plenty of mistakes in my life, said a few things that didn't come out so well either. Thankfully I made those mistakes in my youth when no one was watching. Since then I've learned to control my temper and think about what I am about to say. I am glad your friend also learned from his mistake, but just because something was a mistake does not mean there are no penalties.

One of those things that sets humans apart from the animals is the ability not only to learn from our mistakes, but the mistakes fellow humans make. This is a lesson that should not be lost on Jim Zumbo, Jerry Tsai, or any other "gun writer".

I'm not being apologetic at all. I'm telling you things from my perspective, and putting my name on it... and Zumbo has already given his own apology many times over.

But some people won't allow that to stand and move on. It's over.

It's over for this magazine guy, too. He's apparently quit. He's gone.

Isn't that good enough?

 

[Keane]

I'm not being apologetic at all. I'm telling you things from my perspective, and putting my name on it... and Zumbo has already given his own apology many times over.

But some people won't allow that to stand and move on. It's over.

It's over for this magazine guy, too. He's apparently quit. He's gone.

Isn't that good enough?

His apologies are nice, but really only because he got caught. He called me a terrorist for owning a specific type of rifle. This isn't "I don't like that kind of rifle" or even "I don't approve of its use for hunting" it is "Everyone who owns one is a dirty rotten terrorist". The guy can apologies all he wants, I'm still not going to support a guy who insulted me that much.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I dunno about that, Blitz.

Zumbo is a pal of mine and I talked to him right after the lynch mob formed, I think the day after he filed that on-line column. It was my impression he knew he screwed up almost right after he hit the "send" button.

I'm kind of inclined to concur with Boxer on this. The internet is a rather horrid place at times because people who hide behind nicknames can launch all manner of invective at someone, rather than take a breath and speak to someone for a perceived gaffe in a rational, educational spirit.

I saw some of the missives that were launched against Zumbo, and quite frankly, a few people here in the gun community are thugs. It's one thing to disagree with someone, and quite another to suggest causing him physical harm, and I seem to recall some of that, and I don't like it. I've had people threaten me, and one time somebody threatened my family.

Sure, what Zumbo said offended a lot of people, me included. We needn't behave like Libyans, if you get my drift. Instead of greasing my noose, I called him up, we had a lengthy chat and when it was done, he understood he was wrong.

A shooting school in Ohio IIRC hosted him at an AR class (with full auto!) and he ate it up. I did a story about that in GUN WEEK. He had a ball, wrote about it somewhere else and went hunting coyotes with Nugent down in Texas somewhere, IIRC, and they both used ARs.

Zumbo has paid his dues many times over in firearms journalism and promoting shooting and hunting, for a lot longer than some of his critics have been alive..

Maybe some folks ought to keep that in perspective. Just sayin'

I would never trust a man with such poor judgement

 

[Blitzkrieg]

So, I'm gessing that your not a member of the NRA? Too bad, it's the most powerful lobby in the world and you don't belong?

I can get you sigend up when you join, let me know!

Deen
NRA Life Member Benefactor Level and Recruiter

The NRA has been responsible for the loss of many of our 2nd amendment liberties including helping write the 1934 NFA

 

[Dave Workman]

I would never trust a man with such poor judgement

Well, that's up to you, and I'll respect that.

 

[coctailer]

Well, he doesn't "represent" the "black rifle community." You do.

I mis-typed.

I meant to convey that his "mistake" was letting it slip out that he thinks Black Rifles are bad, and for bad people.

He said "Sorry", but that doesnt change his core belief.

Personally I dont care that he hates ARs and AKs, he just needs to shut up about it,..............we see the result of that here.......

Zumbo and Tsai can go back to fine tuning their hunting rifles, and leave the Evil Black Guns to us Patriots.

 

[Dave Workman]

I mis-typed.

I meant to convey that his "mistake" was letting it slip out that he thinks Black Rifles are bad, and for bad people.

He said "Sorry", but that doesnt change his core belief.

Personally I dont care that he hates ARs and AKs, he just needs to shut up about it,..............we see the result of that here.......

Zumbo and Tsai can go back to fine tuning their hunting rifles, and leave the Evil Black Guns to us Patriots.

Waitaminute...
To my knowledge, Zumbo hasn't said zip about ARs other than he's had a change of heart, and that he's found them to be far more versatile than he thought.

Maybe his internet critics ought to find some other dog to kick.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me

But to Dave.. thanks for listening to our opinions and accepting them

 

[Dave Workman]

But to Dave.. thanks for listening to our opinions and accepting them

Oh, don't go gushy prematurely.

I happen to know you're all raving lunatics and I'm simply being polite

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Oh, don't go gushy prematurely.

I happen to know you're all raving lunatics and I'm simply being polite

SHHH, my wife thinks I'm only slightly off

 

[badclam]

Back to the start of this thread. Jerry Tsai and HK have the opinion that this should not be allowed in the hands of "civies" because it has no sporting purposes. I think I read every post and didn't see anyone mention that the second amendment has nothing to do with sporting purposes. I did see it mentioned that some people should not have some weapons the same as some people should not have forks, and I agree. As far as some people thinking we're being to hard on Jerry Tsai and Recoil Magazine. If their level of professionalism allows these kinds of opinions or mistakes to get to publication then they don't deserve our, my, support. Jerry Tsai and Recoil Magazine can go to heck.

 

[thurston24]

While I think that the reaction to Jerry Tsai was necessary because he said something that one should never say, I understand that he is probably speaking from a position of ignorance. I was ignorant once, wondering why we had "Assault Rifles." The difference though is I got myself an education on the subject and thought about the second amendment and didn't publish my views to the public and smartly realized that I was wrong before. As a editor of a gun magazine, you have a substantive effect on the perception of the firearms industry and need to operate within the views of your readership. He didn't do that and is gone now, as it should be. If he comes back later and is truly apologetic and admits his mistake, I may give him a pass but he will have to earn it.

It's great to see the firearms community to band together to show that they do not allow anyone state that we should subjugate our rights nor speak about what firearms we should not be allowed to own. With certain politicians and even political parties speaking about how they should restrict our rights to firearms, we as a community need to demonstrate that we will not tolerate this. People need to know that if you seek to reduce or take away our constitutional rights away, we will not tolerate it.

I truly hope that Recoil will learn from it's mistake and survive. I personally enjoyed it because it was slightly different and I liked their how to sections about stippling and making Kydex holsters. However, if they follow the "sporting purposes" idea and promulgate it then they need to go.

 

[Dave Workman]

SHHH, my wife thinks I'm only slightly off

No, she knows the truth. I just got off the phone with her.. She has film.

 

[Dave Workman]

Back to the start of this thread. Jerry Tsai and HK have the opinion that this should not be allowed in the hands of "civies" because it has no sporting purposes. I think I read every post and didn't see anyone mention that the second amendment has nothing to do with sporting purposes. I did see it mentioned that some people should not have some weapons the same as some people should not have forks, and I agree. As far as some people thinking we're being to hard on Jerry Tsai and Recoil Magazine. If their level of professionalism allows these kinds of opinions or mistakes to get to publication then they don't deserve our, my, support. Jerry Tsai and Recoil Magazine can go to heck.

No, BC, it is my impression it is well understood that there's nothing in the 2A about "sporting purposes." This whole thread is predicated on that understanding.