Reckless Endangerment/Animal Cruelty Charged After WA Man Shoots Dog He Claims Attacked His Dog

[The B]

yea, pitbulls bite more and do more damage. its just a statistical fact (that i was actually surprised to learn). if they didnt exist, another breed would hold that place. if they didnt exist, another breed would hold that place, till we got down to the lease offensive breed...

am i successfully making my point there?

dogs are property, according to the law. facts. according to many owners, theyre more than property, including "family." also facts.

i dont understand how or why people argue over these points almost every time dog threads come up.

is it property? yes
is it family? sometimes yes.

anyway.. this sounds bubbleguming awful. sounds like the dude has been itching for a chance to shoot the dog, and reached way too far for justification to finally do so. the fact that he did it right smack in front of a goddamn little girl just demonstrates this mufucas psychopathy. throw the book at him - the whole thing.

 

[Unicykle]

The discussion was not about who's dog is better but more specifically which dogs are more likely to bite/attack etc.

The following are some statistics to support it from Dogbite.org. If you click on the link there are two graphs from 2019 and 2020 showing 'Pitts' to be the overwhelming leader in FATAL dog attacks. I can only imagine what the non-fatal numbers are.

In the 16-year period of 2005 through 2020, canines killed 568 Americans. Pit bulls contributed to 67% (380) of these deaths. Combined, pit bulls and rottweilers contributed to 76% of the total recorded deaths.

U.S. Dog Bite Fatalities - Dog Bite Statistics - DogsBite.org

Annual U.S. dog bite fatality statistics from 2005 to present day recorded by DogsBite.org. Combined, multi-year dog bite fatality statistics are also included.

www.dogsbite.org

Unfortunately numbers like this do NOT support, ' it's not the breed it's the owner' as you said.

With all due respect to 'Bro dogs' being your 'jam' and 'Pitts' being your breed for your life, you sound like the typical 'Pitt' owner who is quick to defend them even before they are 'accused' of anything. I suspect this is because deep down you KNOW they have a greater propensity to attack/bite and are in denial over it, or simply unwilling to accept it for whatever

It seems I have to post the same things over and over every time this pitbull thing comes up .
The vast majority of people with dogs pick a dog based on the looks or the reputation not on how the dog is going to fit into their lifestyle and when They figure out that a dog requires actual effort to train, most often these dogs become locked up unsocialized un exercised unloved and become neurotic weapons This happens to all breeds and most mammals, just look at prisons. Somebody just posted with their 10 pound dog that they seem unwilling or unable to socialize it and train it and its the dog not the owner?.After having pits most of my life and never having a issue I feel I have a leg to stand on it seems like the only people pushing the other direction have little to absolutely no experience with Pitbulls just news propaganda or numbers that can be skewed and or not looking at the whole picture. I challenge anybody to take a 3 mile off leash walk with me and my pit and I think you'll be hard-pressed to retain an opinion its the dog not the owner. Should we base things on damage done or behavoir?? One would sway towards eliminating big powerfull dogs one would sway towards eliminating small yappy bitters.

 

[Alexx1401]

Disagree.

According to the story, he shot that dog in anger. A real M/F'er.



Well, I don't think that works all the time. The Pittie that bit me came from a home next to my shop... I had gotten out of my car in the parking lot when the neighbor opened the door to the rental house and the PB came running out towards me with his tail wagging all the way. I was wary. Then the dog bit me in the knee with penetration of his eye teeth. Fortunately he returned when the neighbor called him. Was he playing?

Rottweiler that attacked my Bichon and had her pinned to the asphalt by the back of her neck... in court the owner claimed it was just playing. NOT! Although I'm sure it could have killed her if it wanted to, it was prob defending the territory in front of it's house. That dog was allowed to run free and menace the neighbors. The second attack by the same dog, allowed to run loose on another street while the owner was working on a house nearby, was witnessed by car drivers that testified the dog was menacing, not playing. One more violation and the dog would have been put down... some owners never learn or are too stubborn for the dog's own good.

I know I took a risk but, as I told his screaming owner. I LOVE dogs. I would HATE to do real harm to one because its owner is a moron. Again I made sure my dog was safe, in my arms. I still had pistol in other hand. I joke I take better care of my dogs than myself but its often true. If either of us was going to get bit it was going to be me, not my dog. I would also have also of course have put a round (at least) in the dog if it did go for a bite instead of trying to lick my face and my dog. A risk I was willing to take. One I am glad worked out for me and the other dog and maybe the owner. After she got control of her dog and was berating me over the gun, I put the gun away and brought out a phone. Told her when Police arrived she could share her complaint with them and I would have them explain that sign to her saying law required her dog to be on a leash at all times. She told me to have sex with myself as she jumped in her car to speed off. . I never saw her again. Maybe she learned not to let that monster loose in a place that is not made for off leash?
Now of course if that monster had bit me my story ever after would be a lesson in don't be as soft as me and take the risk.
Another part that was humorous long after is when I reviewed the tape from my body cam. My dog, the one in my avatar, was caught on camera really telling the other dog how lucky he was his human was holding him back or he would have eaten the other dog. With the tunnel vision that happens when this kind of thing is going on I never heard him or even noticed what he was doing. The tape was hilarious considering my 10# dog would have been stuck between the teeth of that monster if the two of them had gone at it. The the little guy had the heart of a full size Doberman even if he only had the body of a Minpin. I sure miss him even though he has been gone for a couple years now

 

[Alexx1401]

This story was covered on the local channel 2 news this morning. The story and the witnesses condemned the shooter.

If and that is always the big IF, with media, it is true? I hope he spends some time in prison. Maybe he can learn to control himself when he gets out.

 

[Alexx1401]

Im torn on the breed debate because Ive met too many bad dog owners who have no idea how to raise a dog, IMO I might seem condescending here but its my observation most people shouldnt own dogs.
But then Ive met a few good dog owners that had the most loving pit bulls that I would let my own kids play with. So I dunno. Im open to hearing all sides on the breed debate still.

Sadly it is a real shame what has been done to that breed. I well remember when they were the smaller Staffordshire they made GREAT family dogs for those moving out in the sticks. They kept the wild dogs from making meals out of the livestock. Sadly morons have made such a mess of them that I am in fear now every time I see one even though I love dogs. When you go the pound here now its always full of them looking for a home and put down weekly. Many of them are no doubt great dogs but I would never own one and fear every time I see one, go on alert. Its why I wish owners of a bad one would have the book thrown at them when it attacks. Maybe some would not be so damn careless.

 

[Koda]

Sadly it is a real shame what has been done to that breed. I well remember when they were the smaller Staffordshire they made GREAT family dogs for those moving out in the sticks. They kept the wild dogs from making meals out of the livestock. Sadly morons have made such a mess of them that I am in fear now every time I see one even though I love dogs. When you go the pound here now its always full of them looking for a home and put down weekly. Many of them are no doubt great dogs but I would never own one and fear every time I see one, go on alert. Its why I wish owners of a bad one would have the book thrown at them when it attacks. Maybe some would not be so damn careless.

Agree. this is why I'm in the middle ground till I learn more. Reno is right pits were bred to fight, but its also a fact that good owners who raise them right have loving dogs that will not attack. I don't think a dog raised correctly will be predisposed to fight or snap someday. I'm leaning on the other fact that the vast majority of dog owners should not be dog owners. Too many people get dogs to guard or defend homes etc. but that takes very specialized training that's very time committing for the life of the dog, most people just put them in the backyard. IMO people need to get rid of the idea they need a personal guard dog when most any dog will bark at an intruder when that's all anyone needs them to do, security systems are a whole lot cheaper.

 

[billdeserthills]

My alder pole is about five feet long, maybe an inch and a half on the thick on one end, an inch on the other. I don't use it to strike a dog that runs up to me, I just kinda parry them away from me. They don't like something like that in their face. I started this with one of my daughter's dogs. A dachshund, the nasty little swine. No matter how many times I've been over there, he's always as mean and noisy as ever. He has bitten but I've avoided it so far.

One of my neighbors down the road is a regular walker. Without a dog. He carries a 5 iron golf club to ward off dogs. He can parry or club with that one.

Some kind of dog spray is what the mail carriers have for protection.

One of my uncles used to keep dachshunds. One was sitting next to my mother on a sofa, then suddenly jumped up and bit her in the face. For no particular reason, they are just notional. There are some breeds that just to tend to be that way. As well as dachshunds, I really keep my distance from dobermans. Pit Bulls I don't see around here but I'd avoid them as well.

I guess we can't expect them all to be well-mannered as retrievers and labradors tend to be.

Labrador eh?

This lady had a face transplant after her lab ripped her face off, then she died 11 years later from the anti-rejection drugs

Woman who had the world's first face transplant dies from cancer

Isabelle Dinoire, 49, was given a new nose, mouth and chin at Amiens Hospital, France, in 2005 after being attacked by a dog. She has died after receiving treatment for two types of cancer.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Member 34319]

Agree. this is why I'm in the middle ground till I learn more. Reno is right pits were bred to fight, but its also a fact that good owners who raise them right have loving dogs that will not attack. I don't think a dog raised correctly will be predisposed to fight or snap someday. I'm leaning on the other fact that the vast majority of dog owners should not be dog owners. Too many people get dogs to guard or defend homes etc. but that takes very specialized training that's very time committing for the life of the dog, most people just put them in the backyard. IMO people need to get rid of the idea they need a personal guard dog when most any dog will bark at an intruder when that's all anyone needs them to do, security systems are a whole lot cheaper.

I'm not entirely nature vs nurture. A well trained dog should not do these things.

However, unless you possess the ability of telekinesis, and or your dog is an android. It makes its own decisions, not you.

Psychological behaviors are genetic. Breed a dog for centuries to be aggressive. It's part of their DNA.

My dogs wouldn't last 10 feet in @Unicykle s challenge. They'd run off yapping in a heart beat. Especially my chihuahua. She is nuts! That's not my point. My point is, god forbid either of our two dogs decided to attack, one will do much much more damage. Not because it's owner did anything, because it was bred to do so.

Since he likes to use gun analogy's. Here's one.

You can kill with an elk with a 10/22. You can kill an elk with a 300 win mag. One was just designed to do it much better than the other, by causing much more damage.

 

[Koda]

I'm not entirely nature vs nurture. A well trained dog should not do these things.

However, unless you possess the ability of telekinesis, and or your dog is an android. It makes its own decisions, not you.

Psychological behaviors are genetic. Breed a dog for centuries to be aggressive. It's part of their DNA.

My dogs wouldn't last 10 feet in @Unicykle s challenge. They'd run off yapping in a heart beat. Especially my chihuahua. She is nuts! That's not my point. My point is, god forbid either of our two dogs decided to attack, one will do much much more damage. Not because it's owner did anything, because it was bred to do so.

Since he likes to use gun analogy's. Here's one.

You can kill with an elk with a 10/22. You can kill an elk with a 300 win mag. One was just designed to do it much better than the other, by causing much more damage.

One question I have is how long it takes to breed features into, or out of an animal? My guess is breeds like pits were bred for strength and jaws which are physical features, but on the flip side how a dog is raised is what affects its temperament.
I'm no perfect dog owner, mine is reactive to other dogs and in those cases wont recall, just wants to run up to play. I wish I was a better dog owner in that regard but life gets in the way, work, family. And I spend a lot of time with my dog, even hired professional trainers... no avail on the reactivity or recall around other dogs. I don't know what else to do... but my point in sharing my own weakness as a dog owner is, I'm still convinced that a large majority of dog owners don't understand what it takes to raise a dog. Maybe I should not have gotten a dog if I wasn't aware of the time commitment to train, but its not usually a big deal like in cases with my breed but yeah I can see issued with larger stronger breeds like pit bulls. I once knew someone with a very violent german shepherd, I do not believe that dog was raised right, so I'm not certain its the breed.
I once had a chance to talk about this with someone who owns pit bulls and he said pits have great memories, so if they are neglected or not raised/trained properly they will never forget bad treatment or habits and can someday retaliate.... note: most people raise or train dogs with a punitive based training model. Likewise they will never forget good treatment and good habits but reward based training is way more time consuming.

 

[Alexx1401]

One question I have is how long it takes to breed features into, or out of an animal? My guess is breeds like pits were bred for strength and jaws which are physical features, but on the flip side how a dog is raised is what affects its temperament.
I'm no perfect dog owner, mine is reactive to other dogs and in those cases wont recall, just wants to run up to play. I wish I was a better dog owner in that regard but life gets in the way, work, family. And I spend a lot of time with my dog, even hired professional trainers... no avail on the reactivity or recall around other dogs. I don't know what else to do... but my point in sharing my own weakness as a dog owner is, I'm still convinced that a large majority of dog owners don't understand what it takes to raise a dog. Maybe I should not have gotten a dog if I wasn't aware of the time commitment to train, but its not usually a big deal like in cases with my breed but yeah I can see issued with larger stronger breeds like pit bulls. I once knew someone with a very violent german shepherd, I do not believe that dog was raised right, so I'm not certain its the breed.
I once had a chance to talk about this with someone who owns pit bulls and he said pits have great memories, so if they are neglected or not raised/trained properly they will never forget bad treatment or habits and can someday retaliate.... note: most people raise or train dogs with a punitive based training model. Likewise they will never forget good treatment and good habits but reward based training is way more time consuming.

The recall when other dogs or animals are around can be VERY hard if not impossible with many K9s. I have seen many Police and Military K9's that would not recall every time and they get a crap load of training. Now some are just easier to train than others. They each have their own personality. The one thing I have found seems to work for the recall is off leash dog parks. With all the dogs I have owned this seems to be the one way to train most of them. Since they are interacting with a LOT of other dogs. Wife always keeps up on it with ours. She will regularly make them come to touch her hand at her command. Did it with lots of time and treats while they were around a LOT of different dogs. Even with that if we are walking leashed and they see other dogs I am not sure we could recall them if they got free. The interacting with other dogs is so bred into them its really hard to control. As long as the dog in not aggressive I have never cared if one got lose and wanted to come see my leashed dog. Have returned quite a few to their home if I could find it. Much to the joy of some owner who had no idea their dog slipped away.

 

[Horatius]

I think we all agree it is a matter of damage done by large breeds. My long-gone Shepard Lab mix was 120 lbs and could shatter cow femurs. my long gone cocker spaniel was more aggressive but less scary. If I can launch it into low earth orbit??? Some people should not own dogs, it is like having a 3 yr old around. even good ones get in trouble!

 

[Unicykle]

Cesar milan has a great view points on training. Most people fail beacause they apply human psychology to dogs and thats rarely works, dogs are pack animals and and look to the leader for decisions they work as a team with a clear leader and followers ( followers dont make decisions or they get disciplined ). Dogs dont follow soft loving kind leader, they follow calm assertive leader. Dogs need exercise dicipline and affection in that order. Exercise makes them happy and easier to train, training consists of clear boundries and rules, praise for good behavior and dicipline for negative behavior. This is over simplified but about all it takes plus alot of dedication on the owners part. Most people with dogs need to be more observant to body language, dogs are putting the signs out if your looking. Catching them while they are thinking about doIng an unwanted behavoir trains fast, trying to get them after the thought has gone and they are already doing it trains slow. Dogs need to be socialized their entire life the more the better people, dogs, cats, sounds, smells, textures on and off leash, the more the better and you end up with a well rounded calm dog that trusts you, looks for you to make decisions, your reading the dog the dogs reading you, your giving directions as when required and they are following orders.

 

[Koda]

As long as the dog in not aggressive I have never cared if one got lose and wanted to come see my leashed dog. Have returned quite a few to their home if I could find it. Much to the joy of some owner who had no idea their dog slipped away.

agree, same here but its not so great the other way around. Kids left the front door open one day my dog saw another being walked and ran out. I called out to recall, to no avail. Walker guy saw mine beelining and failing to recall and panicked, took a huge kick at my dog (he missed). Nevermind the fact my dogs tail was wagging but she was barking, no bites or fights just playing. When I got there I didnt confront the guy over trying to kick my dog, Im sure hes heard many times over how "its ok it just wants to play".
Another friend of mine had a dog that was missing an eye, from a dog who ran up on it "to play". So no harm on the missed kick, easier to apologize and walk away. Now if he was the guy in this articles subject, he could have shot my dog just on the premise it "charged" him.

its a complicated subject. I just wish more people were more understanding of mistakes but I understand if someones been attacked.
Dog parks havent helped my training, but it is helpful to work on the recall from a distance I know other dogs will be. (yup, im still training).

 

[Horatius]

Cesar milan has a great view points on training. Most people fail beacause they apply human psychology to dogs and thats rarely works, dogs are pack animals and and look to the leader for decisions they work as a team with a clear leader and followers ( followers dont make decisions or they get disciplined ). Dogs dont follow soft loving kind leader, they follow calm assertive leader. Dogs need exercise dicipline and affection in that order. Exercise makes them happy and easier to train, training consists of clear boundries and rules, praise for good behavior and dicipline for negative behavior. This is over simplified but about all it takes plus alot of dedication on the owners part. Most people with dogs need to be more observant to body language, dogs are putting the signs out if your looking. Catching them while they are thinking about doIng an unwanted behavoir trains fast, trying to get them after the thought has gone and they are already doing it trains slow. Dogs need to be socialized their entire life the more the better people, dogs, cats, sounds, smells, textures on and off leash, the more the better and you end up with a well rounded calm dog that trusts you, looks for you to make decisions, your reading the dog the dogs reading you, your giving directions as when required and they are following orders.

You are right over the target, I inherited an abused dog that I have spent 4 years teaching how to be a part of a pack with clear rules and lots of affection. He is doing awesome now but I won't take him out around strange people or Dogs. He rolled my wife on her back and was very aggressive because she touched his hip when we first got him. He is just a big goofy dog now that he feels safe with us, I still remember how quick he snapped that day. I would not have taken the dog without the time, space and another dog that ended up helping me teach the new one the rules.

 

[Alexx1401]

agree, same here but its not so great the other way around. Kids left the front door open one day my dog saw another being walked and ran out. I called out to recall, to no avail. Walker guy saw mine beelining and failing to recall and panicked, took a huge kick at my dog (he missed). Nevermind the fact my dogs tail was wagging but she was barking, no bites or fights just playing. When I got there I didnt confront the guy over trying to kick my dog, Im sure hes heard many times over how "its ok it just wants to play".
Another friend of mine had a dog that was missing an eye, from a dog who ran up on it "to play". So no harm on the missed kick, easier to apologize and walk away. Now if he was the guy in this articles subject, he could have shot my dog just on the premise it "charged" him.

its a complicated subject. I just wish more people were more understanding of mistakes but I understand if someones been attacked.
Dog parks havent helped my training, but it is helpful to work on the recall from a distance I know other dogs will be. (yup, im still training).

Yep! If one of mine got loose and got killed it would break my heart but I would not blame the person to took them down. It would be my fault not theirs. I have told the story of the time the one in my avatar got loose and bit the one guy right in the face who first caught him. I was ready and willing to pay his ER bill and send him and his Wife to dinner on me if he wished for saving my dog from getting run over. I got REAL lucky he was a fellow dog lover and was willing to take the bite and still hung onto my dog long enough to get him into a carrier.

 

[Horatius]

Just sayin If my dog don't like yah...

 

[Lazyfaire]

So have I, and yes they can, and regardless of the 'tricky' parts a few things I read in this are a bit disturbing:


So stopping the threat wasn't enough and he had to psychotically execute the dog while screaming profanities - and placing the girl in danger by shooting close to her?


Boastful? Like something he has been wanting to do ?


Oh my, a barking dog behind a fence ? Maybe he should have taken a different path if this affected him. I live with a neighbor with four dogs on my back fence (and another with one (German Shepherd) on another side and they routinely 'go up to the fence' - and bark.


These things indicate a most likely unstable person, drunk with power over owning a gun and he finally found his way to killing something.

Had a neighbor that everytime my dog barked at him he would give the dog a piece of bacon thru the fence. We'd just laugh because the dog knew that if he barked he'd get bacon. Symbiotic relationships in the neighborhood! They were friends

 

[Koda]

Yep! If one of mine got loose and got killed it would break my heart but I would not blame the person to took them down. It would be my fault not theirs.

It depends on the situation, like the story in this thread... the dog got away from the little girl. Technically the girls fault, or the parents. I will blame the shooter. If the guy that tried to kick my dog actually shot my dog, I would blame the shooter.
The problem with dogs is there is almost no recourse we can do to defend them if its our dog thats off leash, and if some guy pulls a gun on your dog there is still nothing anyone can do about it, even if your dog is doing nothing else wrong but being off leash and wanting to play.

If I understand this story right, the only reason the guy is facing charges is because he shot a second time closer to the little girl putting her at risk. So he was charged with reckless endangerment. I doubt he would have faced charges if he let it go after the first shot. There are many people out there like this guy, they are very adamant about it if your dog is off leash your gonna pay some price for that.

 

[Alexx1401]

It depends on the situation, like the story in this thread... the dog got away from the little girl. Technically the girls fault, or the parents. I will blame the shooter. If the guy that tried to kick my dog actually shot my dog, I would blame the shooter.
The problem with dogs is there is almost no recourse we can do to defend them if its our dog thats off leash, and if some guy pulls a gun on your dog there is still nothing anyone can do about it, even if your dog is doing nothing else wrong but being off leash and wanting to play.

If I understand this story right, the only reason the guy is facing charges is because he shot a second time closer to the little girl putting her at risk. So he was charged with reckless endangerment. I doubt he would have faced charges if he let it go after the first shot. There are many people out there like this guy, they are very adamant about it if your dog is off leash your gonna pay some price for that.

YEP! I no longer trust the media at all. If they report the sun will go down tonight I would be skeptical any more but, if this happened as told? It is that second shot that I want to see this guy hung for. If it was my dog, pulled away from someone who was walking it and went at someone who shot it? I would never blame the shooter. Its not their responsibility to wait and see if the dog is going to do something or not. Its if the story is real that he went after the dog after it retreated to shoot again? He should be toast and I will feel no sympathy for him. Things like this are again why I do not walk mine without a body cam too. If something happens it will not be a case of one side says one thing and the other says something else.

 

[gmerkt]

Labrador eh?

This lady had a face transplant after her lab ripped her face off,

Well, there's always that lost ball in the weeds. Just proves the point that none are to be fully trusted.