Recent Fires by Target Shooters!!! Help Us Prevent a Shut Down!!!

[rangerlars]

Thank you for the large forest fire danger banner on the forum.

BTW - Have you noticed the NWFA logo and link to the volunteer section on our target shooting webpage?

http://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/mthood/recreation/?cid=stelprdb5422894

 

[Cogs]

Mike said, in his email above,...

only shoot into a backstop of mineral soil,...

... are evaluating options to lower the fire risk.

So where, in any of our forest's, can we find a backstop of mineral soil without having vegetation on it? I haven't seen any. The foliage in our climate is so thick that it would be a rare place to find just 'bare dirt'.

Now, consider this... If we had a place to shoot, without the foliage and not in a gravel pit, it could be a solution to the fire hazard concerns of target shooting. Imagine several places throughout the forest, such as the one in the picture below, that is bulldozed to the dirt only. (The small stand of trees should be removed or they will get used as target stands). Add a few mounds of dirt here and there. Drop a couple long logs across at the firing line. Provide a parking area close to the firing line (because we don't like to pack our gear down a road to get to a shooting site). Develop a pathway to the end that is Wheel Chair accessible. When the place gets trashed, clean up is much easier because you can use rakes and you are not having to deal with the sticker bushes or raking up rocks.




Now do this same project at several locations around the forest. Choose key locations where it would be reasonably close to where you came into the forest from any side.

This would be an attractant to shooters, would encourage them to shoot responsibly in a safe place and would be a "resource safe" environment (reducing the risk of fires and tree damage).

A place that could be kept open year round.

The more I think of this idea, the more it makes sense. What are your thoughts on this? Do you think this idea should move forward?

Bill

 

[Cogs]

Thank you for the large forest fire danger banner on the forum.

BTW - Have you noticed the NWFA logo and link to the volunteer section on our target shooting webpage?

http://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/mthood/recreation/?cid=stelprdb5422894

Very COOL! Thanks for pointing that out!

 

[The Heretic]

Mike said, in his email above,...

So where, in any of our forest's, can we find a backstop of mineral soil without having vegetation on it? I haven't seen any. The foliage in our climate is so thick that it would be a rare place to find just 'bare dirt'.

Now, consider this... If we had a place to shoot, without the foliage and not in a gravel pit, it could be a solution to the fire hazard concerns of target shooting. Imagine several places throughout the forest, such as the one in the picture below, that is bulldozed to the dirt only. (The small stand of trees should be removed or they will get used as target stands). Add a few mounds of dirt here and there. Drop a couple long logs across at the firing line. Provide a parking area close to the firing line (because we don't like to pack our gear down a road to get to a shooting site). Develop a pathway to the end that is Wheel Chair accessible. When the place gets trashed, clean up is much easier because you can use rakes and you are not having to deal with the sticker bushes or raking up rocks.


View attachment 244639

Now do this same project at several locations around the forest. Choose key locations where it would be reasonably close to where you came into the forest from any side.

This would be an attractant to shooters, would encourage them to shoot responsibly in a safe place and would be a "resource safe" environment (reducing the risk of fires and tree damage).

A place that could be kept open year round.

The more I think of this idea, the more it makes sense. What are your thoughts on this? Do you think this idea should move forward?

Bill

Decent ideas, but there are a few problems.

First, I think that stand of trees is there because they are required by law to be there (if that is public land); trees in drainages like that are often required to be left standing to protect the drainage and mitigate erosion. Even on private land trees are often left on such areas.

Second, it is not so much the trees that may catch fire initially as fuel on the ground. A stand of trees like that will keep the ground underneath them more moist than the surrounding ground which has stumps and other woody debris left from the logging operation - the debris is usually very dry this time of year and it doesn't take much to catch it on fire, whereas the live trees are harder to set off.

 

[The Heretic]

FWIW, I think it is just better if the FS/et. al. just go ahead and say that no shooting would be allowed in certain areas when there is a fire danger. I value those forests much more than I do the ability to go out and shoot in them any time of the year. I think we should just voluntarily say we aren't going to shoot at those times when there is a high fire danger in the forest.

I could be out burning in my private forest - I still have stuff to burn - but I am not burning because it is just too dangerous and it would be inconsiderate to my neighbors - some of whom still have a lot more slash to burn than I do, and whom have all agreed not to burn while it is so dry and hot.

 

[Sharpener]

Great and wortwhile discussion! I've been blessed with a generous friend that lets me shoot on his property. I totally agree though that the forests are worth much more than the ability to go out and shoot in them any time of year. Well put!

 

[Cogs]

Decent ideas, but there are a few problems.

First, I think that stand of trees is there because they are required by law to be there (if that is public land); trees in drainages like that are often required to be left standing to protect the drainage and mitigate erosion. Even on private land trees are often left on such areas.

Second, it is not so much the trees that may catch fire initially as fuel on the ground. A stand of trees like that will keep the ground underneath them more moist than the surrounding ground which has stumps and other woody debris left from the logging operation - the debris is usually very dry this time of year and it doesn't take much to catch it on fire, whereas the live trees are harder to set off.

Shoot! If it's not one thing, it's another! I think you're right about the drainage and soil erosion. That makes sense. I had thought it would only open up more yardage for shooting.

The points about the voluntary cease fire are good to hear and should be adhered to. I'm sure many will not consider that.

Recreational target shooting on public land is an activity that will always be popular, and thus, we need to find a way to make it a safe and respectable activity that is acceptable to all parties.

Hope we find a solution!

Bill

 

[CoastRange57]

Not looking forward to archery elk.

You are probably not going to have an archery elk season this year, or at least access to the woods anyway.

 

[CoastRange57]

Preservation of the public asset ( the forests) has to be the priority. I have a private range, but still go to the woods every couple of weeks. There are a lot of people out there who simply do not know how to take care of a resource, and could care less. Not being able to shoot for a few weeks or couple of months has to be a priority versus having fires destroy our forests.

It costs a tremendous amount of money to fight these fires. I follow these fires and firefighters for several private news sources and know what it takes. I have been in these camps and hauled equipment into them. I feel that this year ODF is taking a very aggressive and very proactive stand in protecting the peoples assets they are charged with protecting. I applaud them and encourage them to do what ever it takes. The less people you have in the woods,the less chance you have to have an ignition.

In 1978 we had some very dry conditions in Western Oregon and a fire started in a wheat field about 10 miles northwest of Yamhill. That fire went to a conflagration status and 1,600 acres and took 3 days to control. Lots of residential and farm exposures and some losses. We do not need that again.

Here are a couple of links to know exactly what is happening with the fire situations, property status and other information. There is no excuse for ignorance on this.

http://www.oregon.gov/odf/pages/fire/precautionlevel.aspx

http://nwccinfo.blogspot.com/

Tell ODF to do what ever they need to do to keep the risk to a minimum. I live about 4 nautical miles from last years Scoggins Creek fire and covered it for several news outlets. That fire was so fast moving and in the type of terrain and with only local resources immediately avalible, it went to 100 acres real fast with a pyro cumulus cloud that went to 10,000 feet. A couple of air tanker retardant drops flown up from Medford and Bend kept it from going into a new drainage.

 

[Rock solid]

You are probably not going to have an archery elk season this year, or at least access to the woods anyway.

Thankfully I have access to private land if need be.

 

[randy wrisley]

Thank you for the large forest fire danger banner on the forum.

BTW - Have you noticed the NWFA logo and link to the volunteer section on our target shooting webpage?

http://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/mthood/recreation/?cid=stelprdb5422894

thank you for the heads up, i was considering going target shooting tommorrow but not now.good to know the word is getting out.

 

[Trick]

 

[CoastRange57]

The Stimson closure was going to happen regardless of the weather and conditions. There has been a rash of thefts at logging sites on the Scoggins Farm in the last couple of months.

 

[Cogs]

We have been asked to help out in Tillamook State Forest this weekend.

See the new thread in the Volunteer section and contact Mike Cafferata, Forest Grove District Forester if you can help.

Fire watch patrols...

Will any of you be in the Tillamook Forest over the weekend and be willing to swing through our some of these areas, perhaps Thursday, Friday, and Saturday afternoons/evenings?

https://www.northwestfirearms.com/threads/tillamook-forest-watch-this-weekend.200706/

Thanks,

Bill

 

[206thsense]

Good for information to know.

Anybody have a solid recommendation for an outdoor shooting area within 1-1.5 hour drive from Seattle-Tacoma area?

 

[winchester270]

Aside from the obvious risks like shooting tracers or other exotic ammo, have they considered maybe the bullets are not starting these fires but possibly a cigarette the target shooter are dropping?I am not aware of the exact conditions in which these fires were started or the evidence leading them to believe it was the bullet. So I am not trying to discredit them, just wondering how they can be sure.
But regardless of that I still promote safe shooting habits and can see the risk of the hot bullets starting a fire and will take precautionary measures to prevent fires. I do respect the forest service and there mission don't get me wrong.
Not trying to start up an argument or piss off the forest service just a thought I figured was worth considering

 

[YOURSUPREMECOMMANDER]

Just in from Tillamook State Forest.... They may close the forest to shooting! Read on. Anyone have a solution?

Hi Bill and Eric,
The e-mail below is from Mike Cafferata. Mike is the District Forester for the Forest Grove District. We have had three fires on the district in the last two weeks that were the result of recreational target shooting. We are sending the message below out widely and he has asked me to forward it to our recreation partners. He is seeking input from recreation users and the recreational target shooting community to help us develop solutions to reduce the risk of fires from target shooting and to ultimately prevent fire starts. Please read though his email and feel free to share it with other members of Northwest Firearms. If you or other members of Northwest Firearms would like to provide comment or input you are welcome to contact Mike directly via phone or email or to send comments to me and I will forward them to Mike.
Mike's contact information is:

Mike Cafferata
District Forester, Forest Grove District
503-359-7430 Work
503-961-2022 Cell
[email protected]

Let me know if you have any questions.
Thank you,
Randy Peterson
Recreation Program Manager
Oregon Department of Forestry
Forest Grove District
Tillamook State Forest
503-359-7470
[email protected]

Hello to all recreational target shooters and others that care about forestlands in Northwest Oregon,

Here in Northwest Oregon, we have had 3 fires in the last 2 weeks that are the result of recreational target shooting in the forest. These fires caused damages of public and private timber (68 acres total), and considerable expense (about $100,000) of private landowner and public funds. Many of you will remember last year's 36 Pit Fire that was reported by the news as having been caused by recreational target shooting in a rock pit. That fire burned 5,500 acres and cost millions of dollars to contain.

Our fire danger is at record levels for this time of year, and getting worse as we head into a weekend of hot dry weather. These are conditions we normally see in August, just before humidity rises and fire danger is reduced. We believe the extra dry conditions are contributing to the number of early starts we are seeing from recreational shooting and other causes.

We are looking for solutions to prevent these recreational target shooting fires and welcome input on the options. As we all work together to prevent wildfire risk, and keep communities safe from fire, we are looking at how best to package a range of available options and prevention tools to accomplish this. This includes:

· More public education, such as this email, alerting the recreational shooting public to the extra hazard and fire starts that are the result of recreational shooting activity. We are also going to do more public outreach through press releases and with our staff.

· Another option is to prohibit recreational target shooting during fire prone conditions through the Regulated Use Requirements. This could be:

o A prohibition on recreational target shooting after 1 pm in the afternoon, as is done with other fire prone activities.

o A complete prohibition on recreational target shooting until conditions moderate

· Waivers could be available for landowners that have fire safe locations.

o Other alternatives that we have not yet identified.

We would like to find a solution that supports landowner activities and the recreating public while also maintaining forest resources and property. This effort relates to geographic area covered by the Northwest Oregon Forest Protective Association, basically the forestland north of Highway 18 outside McMinnville, including the Tillamook and Clatsop State Forests. A map is available here: http://www.oregon.gov/odf/pages/fire/precautionlevelMap.aspx. The area covered by this consideration are the weather zones NW1, NW2, and NW3.

At this time and heading into the extreme heat of the weekend, we are asking the recreational shooting public to be extremely careful. Bullets are extremely hot on impact and we think fragments of bullets falling on vegetation are starting fires in these dry conditions. Here is a link to an article about the ability of bullets to cause fires. http://www.fs.fed.us/rm/pubs/rmrs_rp104.pdf
We are asking that you cease shooting after 1 pm, that you only shoot into a backstop of mineral soil, and that you have the required fire extinguisher (or shovel and water) with you on forestland. After shooting, be sure to check the target area for any signs of fire.

We are learning about the relationship between recreational shooting and fire, and are evaluating options to lower the fire risk. Your suggestions and feedback are welcome. (email, phone, or otherwise to myself or other local ODF staff)

Reducing and preventing wildfires during extremely dry conditions and record drought requires all of us working together towards solutions. As part of this, we need your help in spreading the message to your friends and neighbors, and welcome your feedback and input as we maneuver the summer months.

Regards,
Mike

For current local fire information, see our blog: www.FGDFire.com
Mike Cafferata
Forest Grove District Forester
503-359-7430 Work
503-961-2022 Cell

It is unbelievably hot and dry this year! I'm carrying more safety equipment in the woods than is required, and will do my part to be safe. I have even changed up my shooting spots to places that have backstops that are just dirt - no rocks or dried brush/woods.
I know that fire fighting resources are expensive and have budget constraints.
My biggest concern about a temporary closure is that I have seen so many temporary closures become permanent.
So lets not open that door. Be safe. Be proactive, and spread the word to others you meet in the woods.
Now is not the time to point fingers, this is our hobby, our love. If I see someone acting reckless, I will inform them, as diplomatically as possible, to cut it out. This is not in my nature, but there is too much at risk. I have even been carrying and handing out extra gallon jugs of water.

 

[balaperdida]

I hate to add to a list of don't. I suggest adding black powder or substitutes to the list of items to not use in high fire danger areas. A few years ago I was shooting Pyrodex in one of my revolvers. I guess the powder load was too much or maybe it was one of the wads, but I started a very small fire about five feet in front of me. Stamped it out, turned the area with a shovel, left after a 15-20 minute fire watch. Joined an outdoor club.

 

[Cogs]

THIS IS NOW ON THE MAIN USFS SHOOTING WEBPAGE BUT A LITTLE BURIED

From Mt Hood National Forest Service...
.................................................................................................................
FIRE DANGER IS HIGH ON THE NATIONAL FOREST! Please avoid shooting after 1:00 p.m. on extremely hot days and follow these guidelines:

- Always bring water and a shovel, and place them near target areas to help immediately extinguish any fires.

- Place targets against an earthen backstop and away from all vegetation; especially avoid dry grasses or other flammable materials.

- Never use incendiary ammunition or exploding targets, which are prohibited on National Forest lands.

- Avoid both steel-core ammunition as well as steel targets, as these can present additional risks.

Thank you for doing all you can to prevent wildfire on the Mt. Hood National Forest.

 

[edslhead]

Need to get me a 5 gal jug for water. They had pile of em behind the Chinese restaurant I was at yesterday. I should of asked for a few.