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Rear sight
- Thread Starter USAF Medic
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It depends on the rifle's intended purpose.
Most modern hunting rifles don't have any form of iron sights, and are designed specifically for use with optics. This makes sense, because if you break your scope while hunting, it just means you go home empty-handed. How many people would really remove the damaged scope and continue hunting with iron sights if that happened?
As for home defense or combat use, some form of backup iron sights makes perfect sense, but only as long as you have a way of quickly removing the damaged scope or you are still able to see through a red dot lense well enough to use co-witnessed iron sights. Iron sights do absolutely no good if there's a dead optic in their way that you can't see through.
Given how robust most modern optics are, I'm not as concerned with BUIS as I used to be, but as I mentioned earlier it really depends on the intended use of the rifle.
Most modern hunting rifles don't have any form of iron sights, and are designed specifically for use with optics. This makes sense, because if you break your scope while hunting, it just means you go home empty-handed. How many people would really remove the damaged scope and continue hunting with iron sights if that happened?
As for home defense or combat use, some form of backup iron sights makes perfect sense, but only as long as you have a way of quickly removing the damaged scope or you are still able to see through a red dot lense well enough to use co-witnessed iron sights. Iron sights do absolutely no good if there's a dead optic in their way that you can't see through.
Given how robust most modern optics are, I'm not as concerned with BUIS as I used to be, but as I mentioned earlier it really depends on the intended use of the rifle.
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if that happened, I would put the broken rifle/scope back in its case, and shoot something different.
If a battery powered optic dies, I just put new batteries in. If my battery bag is empty for some reason, I'll just kick myself for forgetting to keep my battery bag topped off, then shoot something different.
That said, I dont hunt or go to war, so my life isn't on the line.
If a battery powered optic dies, I just put new batteries in. If my battery bag is empty for some reason, I'll just kick myself for forgetting to keep my battery bag topped off, then shoot something different.
That said, I dont hunt or go to war, so my life isn't on the line.
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Up till the 1980's ....
Most rifles had both iron sights and options for optics....
Before then say in the 1950's and earlier , scopes were a bit more uncommon..optic quality was less , most were not rain or fog "proof"...and most folks were accustomed to use , and knew how to shoot with iron sights.
Price was also a factor.
Optics have come a long ways and many less expensive models are durable and very bright optically speaking....
Also shooting styles , shooting philosophies , and wants have changed since the 1950's.
With all that said...
I prefer iron sights...and shoot well with them.
If I were to have a scoped mounted rifle...it would also have options for iron sights.
Andy
Edit to add :
After thinking over my comment of "If I were to have a scope mounted rifle...."
Well I actually do have a rifle that has a scope....
I put the scope on because the rear sight dovetail was abused and in need of a clean up.
As a result the rear sight dovetail is now too large for the factory issued rear sight...
So now it wears a scope.. I could install a rear sight , if I found one that fits.
Most rifles had both iron sights and options for optics....
Before then say in the 1950's and earlier , scopes were a bit more uncommon..optic quality was less , most were not rain or fog "proof"...and most folks were accustomed to use , and knew how to shoot with iron sights.
Price was also a factor.
Optics have come a long ways and many less expensive models are durable and very bright optically speaking....
Also shooting styles , shooting philosophies , and wants have changed since the 1950's.
With all that said...
I prefer iron sights...and shoot well with them.
If I were to have a scoped mounted rifle...it would also have options for iron sights.
Andy
Edit to add :
After thinking over my comment of "If I were to have a scope mounted rifle...."
Well I actually do have a rifle that has a scope....
I put the scope on because the rear sight dovetail was abused and in need of a clean up.
As a result the rear sight dovetail is now too large for the factory issued rear sight...
So now it wears a scope.. I could install a rear sight , if I found one that fits.
Last Edited:
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But.... the OP said REMOVE the rear sight implying it already had one. 
I guess it depends if the rear sight prevents mounting a scope, and what your intended use is, but I'd attempt to have redundancy whenever possible.
I have hunting rifles that are "factory slick" with no irons and they have Leupolds on them..
I also have an AR in 6.8SPC that has a 1.5-4x20 Leupold scope and offset BUIS on it.
I guess it depends if the rear sight prevents mounting a scope, and what your intended use is, but I'd attempt to have redundancy whenever possible.
I have hunting rifles that are "factory slick" with no irons and they have Leupolds on them..
I also have an AR in 6.8SPC that has a 1.5-4x20 Leupold scope and offset BUIS on it.
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I think that the many of the folks who remove the rear sight are used to the scope always working ...
And are not used to shooting with iron sights.
Something else to consider is the way that many , many gun writers have for years wrote disparagingly of factory issued rear sights....
The stereotypical folding leaf sight , for sure , is not the best for fine target shooting....but with practice one can make good hits with it , at most hunting distances.*
The same can be said of the "Buckhorn" sights that my favorite rifle uses.
*I would call "most" hunting distances 200 yards or less.
Now I know that not everyone hunts in the same area or with the same style....
And scopes are very useful for hunting....be the shots close or far.
Like most things pertaining to firearms :
What is "right" or "best" may indeed be right or best for you....but not for anyone else.
Use what you like , use a rifle that you can shoot , carry and make hits with , while under hunting conditions...
Make sure that the load and bullet style fits the game that you are hunting...
That is far and away more important , than just what the other hunter is using.
Andy
And are not used to shooting with iron sights.
Something else to consider is the way that many , many gun writers have for years wrote disparagingly of factory issued rear sights....
The stereotypical folding leaf sight , for sure , is not the best for fine target shooting....but with practice one can make good hits with it , at most hunting distances.*
The same can be said of the "Buckhorn" sights that my favorite rifle uses.
*I would call "most" hunting distances 200 yards or less.
Now I know that not everyone hunts in the same area or with the same style....
And scopes are very useful for hunting....be the shots close or far.
Like most things pertaining to firearms :
What is "right" or "best" may indeed be right or best for you....but not for anyone else.
Use what you like , use a rifle that you can shoot , carry and make hits with , while under hunting conditions...
Make sure that the load and bullet style fits the game that you are hunting...
That is far and away more important , than just what the other hunter is using.
Andy
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Well then its next to useless...
Just like if one was to not practice with or sight in their scope.
Both iron sights and scopes are excellent for hunting....
But both need to be sighted in and practiced with....if one wants to shoot well with either of them.
I can only speak for myself...
But when I owed rifles that had both iron sights and wore scopes....both the sights and scope were sighted in.
Again , I think this goes back to my earlier statement of how shooting philosophies have changed....
Just how and why people are shooting today , is different from when I learned to shoot and hunt.
Andy
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Depends on the scope mount and iron sights.....
Andy
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Are what,..?
Pachmayr made "See- thru" scope mounts and rings....as well as a flip over mount..
One could use both the scope or iron sights with these models...these were very popular options.
Again...
I think this is a when you learned to shoot kinda thing....
Folks who learned in a earlier time period , often learned to shoot with iron sights and remember the days when you could have and use both a scope or iron sights on your rifle...
Nowadays ....it is not so common.
Edit to add the most important thing about hunting rifles :
Use what you like , use a rifle that you can shoot , carry and make hits with , while under under hunting conditions.
Use a load and bullet design that fits the game that you are hunting.
And don't worry 'bout what the other hunter is using.
Andy
This reminds me of when I mounted a scope on my top ejecting Winchester 94. I made use of a Weaver side scope mount that kept the scope low and forward. Keeps the iron sights visible and I can maintain a cheek weld with the scope. I now see some wisdom in all those russian rifles with side mounted scopes.
Well sure, but the OP is talking about a mount that requires the rear sight removed. He could get rings that are about 1/4in higher and keep the rear sight for backup....
But then hes back to rezeroing each time he removes the scope to practice.
Thats what Im referring to and its not practical at all. Traditional mounts will have to be rezeroed each removal, so you will never use the irons to practice once such a scope is mounted and dialed in.
The idea here is if the scope fails in the field, but iron backups are not ideal unless youve practiced with them regularly.
Ive looked at the options for my traditiinal hunting rifles and just settled on the idea id never use the irons. My scoped lever gun still has irons but i took both sights off my bolt action.
There are options like see thru rings, offsets, hinged mounts. I think the see thrus would work best but after a few years of using scopes (i started out on irons) i didnt see a need to use irons even close range and didnt like the restricting sight picture thru the see thrus.
Nothing wrong with any options but my take is 3x power scope has better target acquisition than irons under 100yds anyways, why use irons when you have a scope.
But then hes back to rezeroing each time he removes the scope to practice.
Thats what Im referring to and its not practical at all. Traditional mounts will have to be rezeroed each removal, so you will never use the irons to practice once such a scope is mounted and dialed in.
The idea here is if the scope fails in the field, but iron backups are not ideal unless youve practiced with them regularly.
Ive looked at the options for my traditiinal hunting rifles and just settled on the idea id never use the irons. My scoped lever gun still has irons but i took both sights off my bolt action.
There are options like see thru rings, offsets, hinged mounts. I think the see thrus would work best but after a few years of using scopes (i started out on irons) i didnt see a need to use irons even close range and didnt like the restricting sight picture thru the see thrus.
Nothing wrong with any options but my take is 3x power scope has better target acquisition than irons under 100yds anyways, why use irons when you have a scope.
Age plays a role also.
15 years ago I was popping milk jugs at 200 yds no sweat with iron sights.
No way I can do that now even with glasses.
I use my old reading glasses instead of my bifocals when using a scope as it is now.
My AR9 with a QD mounted red dot has Irons on it that I can use very well for it's intended distances.
15 years ago I was popping milk jugs at 200 yds no sweat with iron sights.
No way I can do that now even with glasses.
I use my old reading glasses instead of my bifocals when using a scope as it is now.
My AR9 with a QD mounted red dot has Irons on it that I can use very well for it's intended distances.
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Hell, earlier they even used HAIR for reticles!
Russian optics were designed originally for the SVD and some night vision. For the svd the idea was to be able to take the scope off when not needed (going through the woods for example). Russians did the quick detach thing first, interestingly enough (and it does return to zero with a good mount). As to why it has an offset, Russkies realized that in the real world the lack of a cheekweld vs proper cheekweld doesn't make a big enough difference to matter, so it never crossed their mind to think of it at the time. Being able to field strip the rifle and use irons probably mattered more to them.
The side rail for AKs was more or less an after thought after the SVD.
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My rifles typically have irons by default, and I usually go for AKs and FALs so I always have irons.
For the AKs, the zenitco rails don't allow me to look under the optic. However, on this vepr I can look under the scope to use the irons using nikon rings and a midwest industries side mount.
For the AKs, the zenitco rails don't allow me to look under the optic. However, on this vepr I can look under the scope to use the irons using nikon rings and a midwest industries side mount.
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I've owned a few scopes with hair for a reticle....some were on older rifles . some found their way onto older rifles.
Andy
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