Reality Regarding Caliber "Stopping Power"

[No_Regerts]

I shot a man in Reno just to see him say ow.






nr

Must be using 9mm.

 

[American123]

Sounds like the cops fought a Spartan.

Regardless of the guy's transgressions. He was a freaking badass, took that many rounds, kept on coming, and didn't have any drugs or alcohol in his system.

Adrenaline is a hell of a drug, and a person's mindset can overcome what most firearm wounds create, psychological stoppages.

 

[Cerberus Group]

I prefer to push heavy hollow points as fast as safely possible, I want shock energy and I want temporary wound cavity to be as violent as possible! I want the tango to bleed heavy, or I want to remove offending limbs!

 

[Member 52301]

This podcast is an eye opener. Massad Ayoob interviewed a Chicago cop with 30+ years of experience. Along with some excellent advice ("You do what you need to do to get home at the end of the day. [In a gunfight] you have to come out the winner."), he recounts a story about a man who attacked his partner with a knife. The partner first shot the guy six times with Silvertip hollowpoint 45 Long Colt at very close range; all shots hit center mass. When that didn't stop the attacker, the partner then pulled his back-up gun and put five .38s from his J-frame revolver into the attacker's chest at point blank range. Still under attack, the partner called for help. The interviewee put four more shots into the guy's body (240 grain semi-jacketed flat-noise .44 Magnum bullets) with his Model 29 from 15 feet; 2 hits went into the attacker's upper torso, one into the guy's thigh and another into his kneecap. (That's 15 shots in all.) At that point, the two cops were able to cuff the attacker, who lived for 10 days before expiring. The autopsy showed there were no drugs in the attacker's blood which showed only .02 alcohol. By the way, the attacker was only 5 ft 7 inches tall and weighed about 140 pounds. "We physically decimated this guy."

The story starts at about 7 minutes 40 seconds into the podcast, with more in-depth details starting at 8:22 and the full description of the action starting at 9:30.

You mentioned 45Long Colt (NOT 45acp.) in your post. So one partner was carrying a single action revolver? Interesting.

I will have to listen to this. Thank you.

I am NOT knocking either caliber and I used to own, carry and shoot a SWEET Ruger Blackhawk in 45Long Colt. I no longer own, shoot and carry handguns due to my arthritis and old accident issues but I sure did love my handguns! I miss handgun shooting too.

I personally Never owned a 45acp pistol but my MT husband owns a couple of 45acp pistols now and he has owned a LOT in the '45 caliber' - past tense.

I am glad that the 44Magnum handgun finally did the job.

Interesting that the bad guy kept on going and that it took ALL of that bullet power to STOP THE ATTACK. Interesting that he LIVED that long too!

Maybe they should have shot the bad guy in the throat or in the head after the first two or three shots did NOT bring him down. In other words, don't continue to repeat what does not work when you are trying to stop a direct threat on your life, your partner or your back up partners.

Cate
Added more.

 

[Member 52301]

I don't see a link here. Am I missing something?

I went back to the original post for the LINK and I don't see it either.

Cate

 

[Member 52301]

We have to reply to it so you can see what's in it.

LOL

Good one!

Cate

 

[Member 52301]

One would think that after some unsuccessful torso shots, somebody would take the time to make a head shot... the guy can't knife attack in two directions at once!!!

That was my immediate thought even before I read your comment!

I am still reading this thread.

Cate

 

[Member 52301]

Is it this interview?

Thank you for this LINK.

Cate

 

[Member 52301]

You mentioned 45Long Colt (NOT 45acp.) in your post. So one partner was carrying a single action revolver? Interesting.

I will have to listen to this. Thank you.

I am NOT knocking either caliber and I used to own, carry and shoot a Ruger Blackhawk in 45Long Colt.

I personally Never owned a 45acp pistol but my MT husband owns a couple of 45acp pistols now and he has owned a LOT in the '45 caliber' - past tense.

I am glad that the 44Magnum handgun finally did the job.

Interesting that the bad guy kept on going and that it took ALL of that bullet power to STOP THE ATTACK. Interesting that he LIVED that long too!

Maybe they should have shot the bad guy in the throat or in the head after the first two or three shots did NOT bring him down. In other words, don't continue to repeat what does not work when you are trying to stop a direct threat on your life, your partner or your back up partners.

Cate

From the You Tube interview that the one gentleman (Nick B.) put a LINK to on here:

45Long Colt = a Smith revolver.

It is a good interview.

Thanks again!

Cate

 

[Member 52301]

I like this interview when the policeman talks about POINT SHOOTING with a handgun.

Cate

 

[shybladder]

They say adrenaline will only get ya so far. Well this guy apparently was straight out of the wild Wild West movies. You'd think after all them Bullets laced through his gut and organs he'd be dead within an hour. Wowsas!!
Gets me thinking of lower torso to pelvis/hip area may could have dropped him. Possibly knees.. Proper flanking of target of course. Lot more bone to penetrate and shatter. Make the head shot from arm lengths away.

 

[Member 52301]

They say adrenaline will only get ya so far. Well this guy apparently was straight out of the wild Wild West movies. You'd think after all them Bullets laced through his gut and organs he'd be dead within an hour. Wowsas!!
Gets me thinking of lower torso to pelvis/hip area may could have dropped him. Possibly knees.. Proper flanking of target of course. Lot more bone to penetrate and shatter. Make the head shot from arm lengths away.

I was thinking a head or neck/throat shot/shots IF the first few shots did not stop the threat.

I wonder why they did not AIM for the groin if all else failed and when they did NOT make a head/neck/throat shot.

I would imagine that a GROIN gun shot on a male criminal that is trying to murder you and/or your partner would give so much pain to the criminal plus it would really cause a lot of blood loss.

Cate

 

[bbbass]

Well you read people complaining all the time "Did you even click the link?!!!!"

I don't generally go to the link. And I rarely watch the vids. It just takes up time and effort.

We have to reply to it so you can see what's in it.

That's why I don't need to click... it works almost every time!!!

I wonder why they did not AIM for the groin if all else failed and when they did NOT make a head/neck/throat shot. I would imagine that a GROIN gun shot on a male criminal that is trying to murder you and/or your partner would give so much pain to the criminal plus it would really cause a lot of blood loss. Cate

Shock... I doubt after taking a few hits that a man would be feeling anything at all, anywhere. It also seems that pain is a very poor motivator in most incidents. Repeated blows with an ASP often do no good at all. Same thing happens with bullets... if one cannot stop the blood flow to the brain, or damage the brain's motor control center, one would need to rely on bone breaking shots.... not gonna happen with light caliber but 9mm is all I generally shoot anymore due to arthritis. In a fight I could handle a larger caliber, but I carry what I practice with and even 100rds of 9mm has me looking for the pain meds after a range run.







bb

 

[Dan Adams]

I don't see a link here. Am I missing something?

Sorry, everyone! Here's the link: 052 Interview with Bob Stasch of the Chicago Police Department - The ProArms Podcast

 

[Dan Adams]

Where's the link?
Call me weird. But I like to actually look at links or read other people's posts before commenting on them.

052 Interview with Bob Stasch of the Chicago Police Department - The ProArms Podcast

 

[OldBroad44]

I think most people are more like black bears, but some are more like grizzly bears.

What makes a grizzly bear so much more dangerous than a black bear in an attack situation is not so much that it is bigger as it has a different attitude. A black bear, when shot or otherwise hurt, will usually drop the attack and run. A grizzly will usually instead do everything it can to kill you with its last surviving abilities. To stop an attacking grizzly with a handgun, you apparently have to hit it in the brain or spine. Any other shot leaves it continuing to attack and kill you.

In my own self defense drills I include one or two head shots (depending on distance), then body shots.

 

[Vettewine]

Too much training for torso hits and not enough for the head. Mess up the brain and it lights off.

I agree wholeheartedly with dcfranzen...! If any one of those had been a head shot, game over...! Center mass training is not for up close encounters and also no good against those BGs using body armor (not this case, I presume). Head shots work very well up close and personal and no body armor to contend with...!

 

[bbbass]

In my own self defense drills I include one or two head shots (depending on distance), then body shots.

Since most attackers are male, I have it arranged so my wife insults their genital size. They just slink off whimpering...

 

[best defense]

Too much training for torso hits and not enough for the head. Mess up the brain and it lights off.

I was a reserve deputy sheriff for about a year. During that time i had to go through several days of firearms training and one in depth review of my ability with a firearm. We were told to never aim for the head and if a bullet did strike one of our targets that was counted a miss. However, shots in the neck area were counted as full value.

 

[PsychoDan]

This podcast is an eye opener. Massad Ayoob interviewed a Chicago cop with 30+ years of experience. Along with some excellent advice ("You do what you need to do to get home at the end of the day. [In a gunfight] you have to come out the winner."), he recounts a story about a man who attacked his partner with a knife. The partner first shot the guy six times with Silvertip hollowpoint 45 Long Colt at very close range; all shots hit center mass. When that didn't stop the attacker, the partner then pulled his back-up gun and put five .38s from his J-frame revolver into the attacker's chest at point blank range. Still under attack, the partner called for help. The interviewee put four more shots into the guy's body (240 grain semi-jacketed flat-noise .44 Magnum bullets) with his Model 29 from 15 feet; 2 hits went into the attacker's upper torso, one into the guy's thigh and another into his kneecap. (That's 15 shots in all.) At that point, the two cops were able to cuff the attacker, who lived for 10 days before expiring. The autopsy showed there were no drugs in the attacker's blood which showed only .02 alcohol. By the way, the attacker was only 5 ft 7 inches tall and weighed about 140 pounds. "We physically decimated this guy."

The story starts at about 7 minutes 40 seconds into the podcast, with more in-depth details starting at 8:22 and the full description of the action starting at 9:30.