Read this if you need to throw up in your mouth a little...

[nammac]

They "in power" don't care. They are in elite power positions and they want Americans disarmed so they can get absolute power. They will do, say and pass any law that gets them one-step closer to disarming Americans. Only they will have firearms and be protected by those with firearms (private security, military, etc.). Once they can get the law-abiding citizens unarmed they will go after the "criminals" with full military force - up to, and including, deadly force.

I give America no more than 50 years and we will be in another Revolution.

I give America less than 50 years...

Those who continually legislate against The Consistution and Bill of Rights should be the very first victims...

 

[etrain16]

I didn't read the lies the police wrote, but I did listen to the recording of the shots fired and I still think a belt-fed weapon was used since mag changes don't regularly take place, as they would have on a bump-stock equipped weapon

Just out of curiosity, beyond what you heard in recordings, which, by the way, can easily be shown to sound just like an AR (.223 or .308) using a bump stock, what reason or evidence do you have that their report is a "lie"? I'd really like to know.

 

[bolus]

We have the worlds largest flatworm where I live. The hammerhead flatworm. Many flatworms are parasitic like tapeworms. These things are huge and and squirm around and look like they just fell out of an animals butt. Your instinct is to kill them because they look alien and you expect them to burrow into your skin and use your corpse to feed their young.

I would honestly respect the opinion more of a hammerhead flatworm than an opinion article on the NY times.

 

[billdeserthills]

Just out of curiosity, beyond what you heard in recordings, which, by the way, can easily be shown to sound just like an AR (.223 or .308) using a bump stock, what reason or evidence do you have that their report is a "lie"? I'd really like to know.

There are many reasons I have likely forgotten more than I can remember, but the fact that the police allowed the security guard witness to leave the country before wrapping up the investigation is one reason, also since the hard drive was removed from the scene, many missing shells cannot be located, other witnesses claim multiple weapons fired, I don't believe Paddock worked alone, purely as a locksmith I question that it could take police so long to get inside Paddock's room. As I said I've prolly forgotten more than I can remember right now, but there's a few reasons I remember

 

[bbbass]

IMO it is firearm related... many of the shooters that make the news are later found to be off thier meds or on a cocktail of chemicals.
It's not Opiod pain meds that I'm referring to... It would be hypocritical of me to do so. Happy pills to me are the over prescribed anti depressants that are pushed on anybody that will take them.
Ive gone to a pain clinic since my run in with a log truck 6 years ago, and without my pain meds I'd be bed ridden. Taken responsibility as prescribed they are not the problem. But like guns, the media highlights the abusers, and gives them a bad rep.. like guns, the minority of irresponsible abusers, making the majority of responsible folks pay for thier atrocities. And big pharma wants us off opiods for pain management, and on something more expensive, less effective, and full of deadly side effects. EG.. Vioxx an NSAID pain reliever responsible for at least 30,000 deaths in 5 years before removed from the market.

By your logic, Big Firearms wants all of us to commit mass violence. Hmmm, where have I heard that before???

 

[Mygrainman]

By your logic, Big Firearms wants all of us to commit mass violence. Hmmm, where have I heard that before???

WTF?... Not even close.
how did you come up with that?

 

[etrain16]

There are many reasons I have likely forgotten more than I can remember, but the fact that the police allowed the security guard witness to leave the country before wrapping up the investigation is one reason, also since the hard drive was removed from the scene, many missing shells cannot be located, other witnesses claim multiple weapons fired, I don't believe Paddock worked alone, purely as a locksmith I question that it could take police so long to get inside Paddock's room. As I said I've prolly forgotten more than I can remember right now, but there's a few reasons I remember

I would recommend actually reading the report. It does give a lot of the details you are questioning. Whether you believe them or not is a different story altogether. But they account for a lot of details in that report, including weapons on hand, round counts, locations, how he got weapons to the room, response times, etc. I think it's worth a read either way.

Here is a link to the report: https://www.lvmpd.com/en-us/Documents/1_October_FIT_Report_01-18-2018_Footnoted.pdf

 

[Mygrainman]

@bbbass What I'm saying is... Gun violence is a mental health issue. Not the fault of the tool used. Mental health is a health care issue. Big pharma makes billions from the health care system being in its current state of disarray... IMO they are also the reason the healthcare system is in disarray.

 

[Caveman Jim]

No , by his logic he is describing the evils of pharmaceuticals being prescribed to people who just need to get their shlt together. The easy way for them is a pill & we all know that they have some serious side effects, including death.
Kids in school nowadays take all kinds of pills for ADHD, depression and God knows what other afflictions they seem to have.

I agree that profit outweighs decency in this day of age.

 

[Mygrainman]

No , by his logic he is describing the evils of pharmaceuticals being prescribed to people who just need to get their shlt together. The easy way for them is a pill & we all know that they have some serious side effects, including death.
Kids in school nowadays take all kinds of pills for ADHD, depression and God knows what other afflictions they seem to have.

I agree that profit outweighs decency in this day of age.

Yes... but in some cases medication is a good thing. My son for example is on ADHD meds... off meds he has the attention span of a golden retriever... on meds he's a straight A student with perfect attendance... On the other hand I've seen first hand how the wrong mix of anti depressant and anti psychotic and other meds turn good people with an occasional mood swing suicidal/ homicidal.

 

[Caveman Jim]

Yes... but in some cases medication is a good thing. My son for example is on ADHD meds... off meds he has the attention span of a golden retriever... on meds he's a straight A student with perfect attendance... On the other hand I've seen first hand how the wrong mix of anti depressant and anti psychotic and other meds turn good people with an occasional mood swing suicidal/ homicidal.

Agreed. I was not insinuating that some people did not get the desired relief from them. I'll bet that most of us have probably seen the bad that these drugs can do.

 

[peternov01]

"Do you think he feels responsible for the 15,583 gun violence deaths — suicides not included — that occurred during the first year he was president?"

That looks wrong i think, so then i click on the link cuzz that number seems high...i see a little "1" after the stat and go down to the notes and this is there:

"1: Actual number of deaths and injuries"

so i click the link about the deaths...they are counting all gun injuries as well...and even then don't want to list all the source material i got this message:

"Thanks for your interest in our statistics! Unfortunately, we must limit result sets for the general queries."

Which makes me mad and think someone will call them out on this but we all know no one reading that would ever think to verify the numbers someone puts out.

 

[CountryGent]

They "in power" don't care. They are in elite power positions and they want Americans disarmed so they can get absolute power.

Well said. "The object of power is power." — O'Brien, 1984, by George Orwell.

 

[bbbass]

WTF?... Not even close.
how did you come up with that?

Really, don't you read your own posts?

big Pharma whom are responsible for incalculable deaths

And big pharma wants us off opiods for pain management, and on something more expensive, less effective, and full of deadly side effects.

This is the same kind of rhetoric the antis use to describe gun manufacturers, whom they've tried to sue, gun dealers, gun collectors, gun owners, etc.

 

[bbbass]

@bbbass What I'm saying is... Gun violence is a mental health issue. Not the fault of the tool used. Mental health is a health care issue. Big pharma makes billions from the health care system being in its current state of disarray... IMO they are also the reason the healthcare system is in disarray.

To continue the parallel... firearms industry makes billions from society being in disarray and scared. Mental health is not the fault of the tools used to help maintain patients in a better condition than they would be if not taking happy pills. IMO healthcare system is not in disarray. Healthcare is just fine. It is the health INSURANCE system that is in disarray. And that is because of the politicians that have messed it up by removing it from market forces.

Edit: I will however agree that pharma has impacted physicians by turning many of them into nothing more than pillrollers. We need more focus on diet as a cause and other natural remedies. But always remember that docs used to bleed people. There is still a lot about medicine that we don't know.

It's not just mental health that is a cause for mass shootings, it is also a sick society. Look at the difference between how we are now compared to how it was a few generations ago when mass shootings did not happen. Thru media, music, movies, news, politicians, etc, we are glorifying death, nihilism, political uproar, hatred, lies, corruption, and atheism. Belief in a higher power, rightly or wrongly, is generally a force for good in a society. Even if sometimes abused, the general benefits of MOST religions are greater than the detractions.

 

[bbbass]

No , by his logic he is describing the evils of pharmaceuticals being prescribed to people who just need to get their shlt together. The easy way for them is a pill & we all know that they have some serious side effects, including death.
Kids in school nowadays take all kinds of pills for ADHD, depression and God knows what other afflictions they seem to have.

I agree that profit outweighs decency in this day of age.

And by antis logic they are describing the evils of people being allowed to have weapons when they just need to get a job, control their violent urges, stop dealing drugs, etc. The parallel i made stands. If you are going to attack a manufacturer of legal materials... it's all the same. Don't like it... outlaw it. Same for tobacco, medicines, firearms, pot, booze, etc etc etc. Logic is applied equally. Like math, the rules are constant.

As far as people just needing to get their shlt together... you don't know what you are talking about. I like you Jim, but do some fricking research. Your OPINION on this is not aligned with the medical facts. Mental health is more than a mind issue, it is also a brain chemistry issue.

 

[bbbass]

Yes... but in some cases medication is a good thing. My son for example is on ADHD meds... off meds he has the attention span of a golden retriever... on meds he's a straight A student with perfect attendance... On the other hand I've seen first hand how the wrong mix of anti depressant and anti psychotic and other meds turn good people with an occasional mood swing suicidal/ homicidal.

So big pharma is ok, er, sometimes... depending on your individual needs. Yet you blanket attacked them. Just like the many antis that go out and buy a firearm if they, themselves, have a scare or a bad experience. My parallel stands.

As far as I know, and in my personal experience, anti-depressants like SSRIs are pretty mild. However, once started on them, much like other medicines, it is a lifetime commitment. Some people can be weaned off but many cannot. IMO the benefits are greater than the negatives. I'm sure you will cite how mass shooters have been on SSRIs, but I think most of these were also on other mind meds, were greatly sicker than SSRIs alone can treat, or should have been locked away.

Conversely, having seen personally what anti-psychotic drugs do to people, these drugs are hard acting. People that are on them should not be unsupervised, ever. And they should only be used to control mental inpatients, never outpatients. These people are lost, condemned. In olden days we used to execute them, then we locked them away, now we mentally castrate them and then allow them to be among us, then run amuck when left alone and they stop taking their meds. Houston, we have a problem!!!

 

[JRuby]

@bbbass What I'm saying is... Gun violence is a mental health issue. Not the fault of the tool used. Mental health is a health care issue. Big pharma makes billions from the health care system being in its current state of disarray... IMO they are also the reason the healthcare system is in disarray.

I feel that the medical providers and pharmaceutical industry has little interest in curing sick people because there is too much money in keeping us sick. It is a downward slope once you get on a drug it isn't long before your on the second and third. The drugs themselves are not that great for the body and selling point is that it will keep you alive longer. Sounds like a horror story except this is reality.

 

[Caveman Jim]

And by antis logic they are describing the evils of people being allowed to have weapons when they just need to get a job, control their violent urges, stop dealing drugs, etc. The parallel i made stands. If you are going to attack a manufacturer of legal materials... it's all the same. Don't like it... outlaw it. Same for tobacco, medicines, firearms, pot, booze, etc etc etc. Logic is applied equally. Like math, the rules are constant.

As far as people just needing to get their shlt together... you don't know what you are talking about. I like you Jim, but do some fricking research. Your OPINION on this is not aligned with the medical facts. Mental health is more than a mind issue, it is also a brain chemistry issue.

My opinions on this are driven by actual experiences with my children, Dr. opinions & recommendations. I don't really care if my opinions are not aligned with anything on the internet, that does not concerne me at all.
I'llhave to say that we are not in agreement ,I'm done with this conversation.

 

[bbbass]

My opinions on this are driven by actual experiences with my children, Dr. opinions & recommendations. I don't really care if my opinions are not aligned with anything on the internet, that does not concerne me at all.
I'llhave to say that we are not in agreement ,I'm done with this conversation.

That's fine Jim. My knowledge of this is based on actual experience as well as research done in books, Scientific American, etc, NOT the internet. You should not assume such a thing.

BTW, perception of actual experience can be wrong. There are many examples. I'm sorry that you seem to feel offended by a contrary opinion. I think we've moved way away from the original intent of this thread, but I will stay as long as anyone wants to have a discussion.

Respectfully,

bb