Ranger Talon vs Federal HST vs Speer Gold Dot (9mm)

[Bushman]

I've seen couple people shot with Gold Dot and HST out of 9mm. 124gr +p GD and 147gr HST. Most lived.

80% of people shot with handguns apparently do live. Strange thing is every time I read about an NYPD shooting including recently, their 124gr gold dot did the job in 1-2 shots in almost every case.

 

[Kruel J]

I personally run Hornady 115 grain Critical Defense rounds in my EDC. I'm comfortable with their ballistic abilities.

 

[osprey]

In the testing I have seen the Ranger t series in 147 gr gives great expansion and penetration and would be my choice if I could only pick one. I also like subsonic loadings in 9mm that perform well and the Talons fit the bill nicely.

 

[No_Regerts]

80% of people shot with handguns apparently do live. Strange thing is every time I read about an NYPD shooting including recently, their 124gr gold dot did the job in 1-2 shots in almost every case.

That's why I don't get too bent out of shape over pistol bullet performance. They are gonna suck no matter how much money I throw at it. Rifles with rifle calibers shoot bullets fast enough to make bullet performance and technology relevant. That's why rifle bullet technology and options are so far ahead of of pistol bullets.

 

[nammac]

I've run Federal 147 gr HST's, Winchester 147 gr Ranger T's and Speer 147 gr Gold Dots Gen 2 (police trade in stuff) without issues...

Also have some gen 1 Federal 147 gr Hydra-Shoks and gen 1 Winchester 115 gr Silvertips from back in the day...

Wouldn't feed under protected with any of them... Well maybe those 115 gr Silvertips

 

[The Heretic]

That's why I don't get too bent out of shape over pistol bullet performance. They are gonna suck no matter how much money I throw at it. Rifles with rifle calibers shoot bullets fast enough to make bullet performance and technology relevant. That's why rifle bullet technology and options are so far ahead of of pistol bullets.

IMO, the main thing I look at is whether the projectile (rifle or pistol) is FMJ or JHP/JSP - then I look for gel tests to confirm that the JHP/JSP projectile expands.

Then if it is rifle ammo, if I can find it, I look for tests that show expansion at ranges 300 yards or more - depending on the cartridge.

If I am paying a premium price, then I look for performance against barriers and other aspects, such as accuracy/precision and reliability.

 

[No_Regerts]

I'll take some of that back. I do care how a pistol bullet reacts to barriers. Especially glass. This is where not all bullets or calibers are created equal. I've been really impressed with the performance of 357 Sig, 40 s&w, 10mm, and 45 ACP with 230 FMJ (oddly enough).

 

[The Heretic]

I have a range of ammo from FMJ for practice, to "classic" JHP (or generic if you will) to premium JHP (e.g., Winchester "white box" bonded SXT and Federal bonded HST) and so on. For self-defense I want ammo that at least has the intention to expand.

For 9mm I have mostly 115 gr. but prefer 124-135 grain as I think it is a good compromise - but the 115 grain is much more available in both JHP and FMJ, so I went with that.

 

[Bushman]

That's why I don't get too bent out of shape over pistol bullet performance. They are gonna suck no matter how much money I throw at it. Rifles with rifle calibers shoot bullets fast enough to make bullet performance and technology relevant. That's why rifle bullet technology and options are so far ahead of of pistol bullets.

Hence why high capacity and shot placement is so important with pistol calibers. Penetration and shot placement over all else. But if I can have an advantage with an expanding bullet, I want one. Though I'd have no hesitation carrying FMJ if that's all I had, because I trust my drills to allow me to drill them enough times to at least make them go tend to their wounds rather than fighting on.

 

[No_Regerts]

Hence why high capacity and shot placement is so important with pistol calibers. Penetration and shot placement over all else. But if I can have an advantage with an expanding bullet, I want one. Though I'd have no hesitation carrying FMJ if that's all I had, because I trust my drills to allow me to drill them enough times to at least make them go tend to their wounds rather than fighting on.

What's funny is hunting bullets are usually chosen based on the intended impact velocity threshold, but you don't hear about it as much with pistols. I look at construction vs velocity. That's why the stuff I use out of a short barrel is different than what I'd use out if a 4.5/5 inch barrel.

 

[osprey]

I think You could do much worse than 230gr ball out of a 45 acp for defensive purposes. I have friends who do just that. I am very curious about bullet performance out of all my weapons and perform my own testing before I am satisfied. For example out of my 6" 44 mag pistol I have found 300 gr xtp's perform poorly in regards to expansion. I have dug several out of wet clay banks that had little or no expansion. They like to be driven fast and those same xtp's out of a muzzle loader or carbine going in excess of 1600fps, expand nicely and put the smackdown on game.

 

[Knute]

OP is using 3.5-4" barrels if I read that right...stick with your 147gr HSTs. Lots of test results up on YouTube for shorter barrel 9mm, and it seems to me most results clearly point to heavy-for-caliber rounds are more effective from shorter barrels.

I like your NYPD reference as confirmation of the GDHPs. I've used 147gr GDHP in Glock 43s, Sig 938, and 4" 1911s, and they always run great...you're mileage may vary though

 

[EHJ]

Reason I ask, I'm trying to consolidate and settle on one, sell the rest.

I'd try finding more supply first before going and discarding what you think you'd not need, if it were me.
All 3 of these will do the damage you'd expect and all of it pretty much unobtanium these days.
I like HST's.

 

[Bushman]

I'd try finding more supply first before going and discarding what you think you'd not need, if it were me.
All 3 of these will do the damage you'd expect and all of it pretty much unobtanium these days.
I like HST's.

I have plenty of supply, I just sold 4K rounds of JHP, lol. I've been through these situations 3 times before, it will wind down again. I don't need so much so I'm making space and selling while the selling is good. 1K rounds of JHP will do it for me. I'm still working on the same 2K rounds of Gold Dot I bought long ago...barely made a scuff on it...

 

[RedRover]

I've seen couple people shot with Gold Dot and HST out of 9mm. 124gr +p GD and 147gr HST. Most lived.

Was the threat stopped?

 

[No_Regerts]

Was the threat stopped?

Some yes. The rest, shot placement issues, but slowed until someone else could put in their $0.02

 

[Alexx1401]

What's funny is hunting bullets are usually chosen based on the intended impact velocity threshold, but you don't hear about it as much with pistols. I look at construction vs velocity. That's why the stuff I use out of a short barrel is different than what I'd use out if a 4.5/5 inch barrel.

Speer did this long ago, have not paid attention to whether others followed. I have LONG used Speer GD's. When they came out with a Short Barreled version it was claimed to be loaded with powder aimed at getting the most out of the sub compacts. I tried some in my sub compact 9mm. Do not have a Chrono but it sure sounds, looks, and feels different. Do not get nearly the ball of fire for one thing. So I bought a bunch of it back a couple panics back and am sill using it for carry. Use the "normal version" of their +P124's in the PCC's that are 9mm. Of course right now it would be damn hard to buy so if someone does not have any they will have to look more at what they can find at this point until after this latest panic is over.

 

[Alexx1401]

Some yes. The rest, shot placement issues, but slowed until someone else could put in their $0.02

Handguns have NEVER been "ideal" for "stopping" someone who wants to not stop. For a long time I would hear the tales of people soaking up hits and most often thought they were almost all just stories that kept getting better with the re telling. Then camera's started to be everywhere. We started to see lots of video of these guys shot multiple times and still not giving up. Lots of them are dopers of course but it's still scary to watch them and then pick up my little .380 because I am just heading out to get a snack It did make me take to using 10 round mags in my carry 1911.

 

[Bushman]

Handguns have NEVER been "ideal" for "stopping" someone who wants to not stop. For a long time I would hear the tales of people soaking up hits and most often thought they were almost all just stories that kept getting better with the re telling. Then camera's started to be everywhere. We started to see lots of video of these guys shot multiple times and still not giving up. Lots of them are dopers of course but it's still scary to watch them and then pick up my little .380 because I am just heading out to get a snack It did make me take to using 10 round mags in my carry 1911.

Unless you get an upper CNS hit or bleed them out, all stops are psychological stops, not physiological stops.

 

[Kruel J]

Unless you get an upper CNS hit or bleed them out, all stops are psychological stops, not physiological stops.

I disagree. I've seen plenty of vids where people went down with obvious physiological trauma but no life-threatening hits. It is, afterall, a very traumatic wound regardless of where its is on the body. Extremities can be rendered inoperable, things like lung and gut shots can most definitely drop someone. Hopped up on drugs notwithstanding of course.

You're painting with a fairly broad brush there.