Rand Paul - Allow Firearms at Post Offices

[RicInOR]

"Paul said his gun rights amendment would allow licensed gun owners to carry weapons inside post offices, rather than having to unholster them and keep them in the car. Guns are banned in federal buildings, including post offices."

Warning source is MSNBC
Paul targets 'Post Office Gun Ban' | MSNBC

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[deen_ad]

Yep, typical MSNBC trash "reporting"! :nuts:

 

[ZA_Survivalist]

However, the Post Office isn't a Federal entity.. Its a united postal service and what we buy stamps for. Granted its protected by Federal law its not a genuine Federal Property otherwise UPS, FED EX, DHL and various messenger boys could claim the same federal protection.

 

[tiggers97]

I'd rather revocation of a few executive orders instead. Those M1's in South Korea need to come home!

 

[Dunke]

The Post Office is a Federal entity and its property is federal property. It's just not funded by appropriated funds (Taxes).

However, the Post Office isn't a Federal entity.. Its a united postal service and what we buy stamps for. Granted its protected by Federal law its not a genuine Federal Property otherwise UPS, FED EX, DHL and various messenger boys could claim the same federal protection.

 

[ZA_Survivalist]

The Post Office is a Federal entity and its property is federal property. It's just not funded by appropriated funds (Taxes).

Proof?
Other than federal law protecting them?
They aren't a government agency.

Ill hold that opinion until proven otherwise.

 

[Dunke]

United States Postal Service - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Proof?
Other than federal law protecting them?
They aren't a government agency.

Ill hold that opinion until proven otherwise.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

No one tells me I must be helpless, no one. Also the USPS is a private contracted entity. This argument has been a flame war on many forums.. you choose what is important to you

 

[1337BaldEagle]

No one tells me I must be helpless, no one. Also the USPS is a private contracted entity. This argument has been a flame war on many forums.. you choose what is important to you

My understanding is that "defined by statute, independent establishment from the federal government" is to mean only that "these agencies exist out of the federal executive departments" meaning, "while constitutionally part of the executive branch, [they] are independent of presidential control, usually because the president's power to dismiss the agency head or a member is limited." Just my understanding.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Like I said, these threads go on and on.. my question is what is your life and what are your families lives worth?

 

[1337BaldEagle]

Like I said, these threads go on and on.. my question is what is your life and what are your families lives worth?

A lot, I elect to use UPS.

 

[Darknight]

I think what was meant was no handguns on or in usps property or buildings including in your car on the property. Of course all other federal property is covered by federal law as well, but USPS is the discussion. I don't agree with the stupid law either, but then again I don't feel like spending time in a federal prison; So I use alternative contract carriers to ship stuff. It's just too bad USPS will never go broke enough to get rid of them.

 

[RicInOR]

You have to read this article on the topic:

Bloomberg's Business Week - and it should be shown as an editorial not an article -

Rand Paul Wants You to Come to the Post Office Packing - Businessweek

"You'll be able to negotiate better prices."
"No more long lines."
"It will hasten the Postal Service's demise."

 

[Redcap]

I carry in the post office. IDGAF.

 

[Nwcid]

I think what was meant was no handguns on or in usps property or buildings including in your car on the property. Of course all other federal property is covered by federal law as well, but USPS is the discussion. I don't agree with the stupid law either, but then again I don't feel like spending time in a federal prison; So I use alternative contract carriers to ship stuff. It's just too bad USPS will never go broke enough to get rid of them.

What Federal Law covers it? What EXACTLY does it say about firearms? Does it matter on what kind of Federal property?

 

[Darknight]

What Federal Law covers it? What EXACTLY does it say about firearms? Does it matter on what kind of Federal property?

Title 39: Postal Service
§232.1 Conduct on postal property

(l) Weapons and explosives. Notwithstanding the provisions of any other law, rule or regulation, no person while on postal property may carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either openly or concealed, or store the same on postal property, except for official purposes.

 

[Darknight]

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2011-title18/pdf/USCODE-2011-title18-partI-chap44-sec930.pdf


Clarence Dorosan Appellate Ruling


Columbia v. Heller (look under "sensitive areas") No link just google it

Judge Rules Man Can Take Gun Onto Post Office Parking Lot - But Not Actual Post Office

 

[Nwcid]

Title 39: Postal Service
§232.1 Conduct on postal property

(l) Weapons and explosives. Notwithstanding the provisions of any other law, rule or regulation, no person while on postal property may carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either openly or concealed, or store the same on postal property, except for official purposes.

Yes, you got the part for the USPS. But that is such a poorly worded an vague law and that is where the problems come in. How are we able to ship long arms and FFL holders able to ship pistols? How about LEO on USPS property? They are not specific exemptions, which are things most laws have. Also what is the definition of "official purposes"?

You said other Federal Property also though;

I think what was meant was no handguns on or in usps property or buildings including in your car on the property. Of course all other federal property is covered by federal law as well, but USPS is the discussion. I don't agree with the stupid law either, but then again I don't feel like spending time in a federal prison; So I use alternative contract carriers to ship stuff. It's just too bad USPS will never go broke enough to get rid of them.

But it is NOT illegal to carry on Federal property. Just one example of that would be many hunters going to jail for hunting on say Forest Service property.

 

[1337BaldEagle]

§ 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous
weapons in Federal facilities
(a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever
knowingly possesses or causes to be present
a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal
facility (other than a Federal court facility),
or attempts to do so, shall be fined under
this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or
both.
(b) Whoever, with intent that a firearm or
other dangerous weapon be used in the commission
of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes
to be present such firearm or dangerous weapon
in a Federal facility, or attempts to do so, shall
be fined under this title or imprisoned not more
than 5 years, or both.
(c) A person who kills any person in the course
of a violation of subsection (a) or (b), or in the
course of an attack on a Federal facility involving
the use of a firearm or other dangerous
weapon, or attempts or conspires to do such an
act, shall be punished as provided in sections
1111, 1112, 1113, and 1117.
(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to—
(1) the lawful performance of official duties
by an officer, agent, or employee of the United
States, a State, or a political subdivision
thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in
or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation,
or prosecution of any violation of
law;
(2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous
weapon by a Federal official or a member
of the Armed Forces if such possession is
authorized by law; or
(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other
dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident
to hunting or other lawful purposes.
(e)(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), whoever
knowingly possesses or causes to be present
a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal
court facility, or attempts to do so, shall be
fined under this title, imprisoned not more than
2 years, or both.
(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to conduct
which is described in paragraph (1) or (2) of subsection
(d).
(f) Nothing in this section limits the power of
a court of the United States to punish for contempt
or to promulgate rules or orders regulating,
restricting, or prohibiting the possession of
weapons within any building housing such court
or any of its proceedings, or upon any grounds
appurtenant to such building.
(g) As used in this section:
(1) The term ‘‘Federal facility’’ means a
building or part thereof owned or leased by the
Federal Government, where Federal employees
are regularly present for the purpose of performing
their official duties.
(2) The term ‘‘dangerous weapon’’ means a
weapon, device, instrument, material, or substance,
animate or inanimate, that is used for,
or is readily capable of, causing death or serious
bodily injury, except that such term does
not include a pocket knife with a blade of less
than 21⁄2 inches in length.
(3) The term ‘‘Federal court facility’’ means
the courtroom, judges’ chambers, witness
rooms, jury deliberation rooms, attorney conPage
249 TITLE 18—CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE § 931
ference rooms, prisoner holding cells, offices
of the court clerks, the United States attorney,
and the United States marshal, probation
and parole offices, and adjoining corridors of
any court of the United States.
(h) Notice of the provisions of subsections (a)
and (b) shall be posted conspicuously at each
public entrance to each Federal facility, and notice
of subsection (e) shall be posted conspicuously
at each public entrance to each Federal
court facility, and no person shall be convicted
of an offense under subsection (a) or (e) with respect
to a Federal facility if such notice is not
so posted at such facility, unless such person
had actual notice of subsection (a) or (e), as the
case may be.
(Added Pub. L. 100–690, title VI, § 6215(a), Nov. 18,
1988, 102 Stat. 4361; amended Pub. L. 101–647, title
XXII, § 2205(a), Nov. 29, 1990, 104 Stat. 4857; Pub.
L. 103–322, title VI, § 60014, Sept. 13, 1994, 108
Stat. 1973; Pub. L. 104–294, title VI, § 603(t), (u),
Oct. 11, 1996, 110 Stat. 3506; Pub. L. 107–56, title
VIII, § 811(b), Oct. 26, 2001, 115 Stat. 381; Pub. L.
110–177, title II, § 203, Jan. 7, 2008, 121 Stat. 2537.)

So, my understanding it is buildings. Notwithstanding the Postal Code seems to have taken that further.

 

[bzltyr]

Who cares. I carry in post office all the time