Rainy day funds and how much cash to have on hand

[The Heretic]

EMP will do damage. I am just saying the idea that it will fry everything everywhere is not true, especially when it comes to transportation. A lot of computers are laptops and many will not be directly connected to "the grid" and many will not be turned on at a given time. Many computers are well shielded, and server rooms, especially in data centers, usually have significant current/voltage protection.

As I said, the impact would be severe (if it ever happened - which is unlikely), but would not be the end of civilization. There would still be computers, and the data won't just "disappear".

 

[GWS]

EMP will do damage. I am just saying the idea that it will fry everything everywhere is not true, especially when it comes to transportation. A lot of computers are laptops and many will not be directly connected to "the grid" and many will not be turned on at a given time. Many computers are well shielded, and server rooms, especially in data centers, usually have significant current/voltage protection.

As I said, the impact would be severe (if it ever happened - which is unlikely), but would not be the end of civilization. There would still be computers, and the data won't just "disappear".

Well, I disagree there because IF someone like China, Russia or whoever pops EMP weapons over us, do you think we won't retaliate? I think if one bird flies, many or all will and that will be the end.
But yes, I agree that it is very unlikely that an EMP event will happen, but I don't think it's impossible.
And then there are the hackers and Coronal Mass Ejections and civil unrest and UFO's chasing our Navy and Joe Biden in the White House. All sorts of potential catastrophes in the works.
PM's will help me get through them if they happen

Also a computer etc. doesn't need to be turned on or even plugged in in an EMP event
The ionization/electromagnetic energy in the air is evidently enough to wreck it if they are not shielded.

 

[wired]

How many people will take PMs in trade for goods right now when there is an relatively easy way to turn it into cash or other goods? How many people regularly use PMs for commerce now?

As for EMP - that is an extreme unlikely scenario that is very popular and overhyped in PAW fiction.

Most people don't understand the effects, such as how EMP is line of sight only, or how shielding works, or how integrated circuits work, can be and usually are shielded, and how most vehicles would still run.

And yes, I do - somewhat; I have a EE degree, and I worked for several years in a related field on DoD contracts collecting and analyzing data on secure communication systems behavior in a "enhanced environment" (DoD euphemism for after effects of a nuclear war). I also have about a decade of experience (previous to my EE degree) working on mechanical systems of all types, mostly in the military but also for some years afterwards and prior.

EMP would be no fun. It's effects would be severe and widespread, but no, not all electronic systems would be wiped out and permanently dysfunctional. Not all vehicles would stop working - in fact, many would continue to work. I know that at least one of mine would - a '97 Dodge 4x4 flatbed with a 12V Cummins diesel. A lot of private airplanes that use magneto ignition would continue to fly. A lot of ag tractors would continue to run, as would many trucks made before the 90s and the turn of the century (e.g., most Dodge pickups/trucks with 12V Cummins. Many of the early 24V Cummins can be converted to use the previous purely mechanical fuel injection pumps).

Again, it would be SHTF, but not the end of the world.

The consensus on EMP that Ive seen as far vehicles go is that if you are line of sight to a nuclear blast it wont affect vehicles that are not turned on at all and vehicles that are running will shut off and usually restart. The power grid will have other problems but if you are line of sight to a nuclear blast you will probably be having other problems too.

Non nuclear EMP generators that would affect more than a block or two do not exist.

 

[The Heretic]

Well, I disagree there because IF someone like China, Russia or whoever pops EMP weapons over us, do you think we won't retaliate? I think if one bird flies, many or all will and that will be the end.

Which is why I assert it is unlikely.

But yes, I agree that it is very unlikely that an EMP event will happen, but I don't think it's impossible.

Of course it is possible - so is the earth getting hit by a dino killer comet/asteroid.

Also a computer etc. doesn't need to be turned on or even plugged in in an EMP event

It doesn't need to be plugged in or turned on, but it reduces the risk of damage if it isn't.

The ionization/electromagnetic energy in the air is evidently enough to wreck it if they are not shielded.

The ionization is what I studied/analyzed on my job - that is long lasting and will interfere with most wireless communications systems. The RF energy pulse is short lived and what does the damage to electronics and power lines/etc.

 

[GWS]

Okay
Then returning to the point of this thread.
I'll recap my stance upon cash and other specie as means of trade in a post disaster or apocalyptic world.
So then in the event of such an unlikely occurrence that may or may not erase my savings, checking and retirement accounts, I believe that cash will be king for at least the first few days so I keep that on hand. In case the cash runs out or loses value, I like to keep precious metals as a means to trade for items I may want or need in an environment where I can no longer access my money from banks and investments or where paper currency may no longer be valued even if I could access it.
Gold and silver have been valued for over 90% of human history. I am betting that that trend will continue, even after the apocalypse.

YMMV
Hopefully, we will never need to find out who's right.

Peace out

 

[Longwalkhome]

I don't know gents, with Biden set to print and spend $14 trillion dollars and Russia today drops the dollar, will a rainy day fund in your pocket have much value?

 

[The Heretic]

I don't know gents, with Biden set to print and spend $14 trillion dollars and Russia today drops the dollar, will a rainy day fund in your pocket have much value?

Russia and China have been pulling back from the dollar for quite some time now.

I don't think Congress will go for a lot more deficit spending either. Some really want to, but they do not have enough votes - I hope.

 

[Longwalkhome]

Russia and China have been pulling back from the dollar for quite some time now.

I don't think Congress will go for a lot more deficit spending either. Some really want to, but they do not have enough votes - I hope.

As fewer countries take the dollar then the dollars value drops a great deal. At some point we will not be the world currency so inflation will go through the roof. Its a rainy day when that happens but most folks won't have any money anyway and government will have to print more and give it to them.

With Russia unwilling to take dollars it won't take much for a world panic to dump dollars. Especially with the trillions our government is flooding the world with.

 

[The Heretic]

Russia and China are doing this because they are our rivals

 

[hellotyler]

One of the reasons I started getting interested in guns about 6 months ago was that not only do they offer protection but extremely good value in a crisis situation. So if things every really do go to bubblegum, not only will I be able to protect myself but I'll have some barterable goods as well.

 

[Longwalkhome]

Russia and China are doing this because they are our rivals

of course and no doubt about it. What I am getting at is how this affects the rainy day fund? Inflation takes off then you won't want to have extra money laying around would you? I have read folks in other countries spent any cash they got right away because it would be worth far less overnight.

Just guessing so I am asking questions, since most folks don't have enough in the bank for car repairs then when inflation runs away will government supply money, gas or food for them?

 

[The Heretic]

One of the reasons I started getting interested in guns about 6 months ago was that not only do they offer protection but extremely good value in a crisis situation. So if things every really do go to bubblegum, not only will I be able to protect myself but I'll have some barterable goods as well.

The value will be high though - a $500 handgun is not something you would currently trade for a meal, more like something you would trade for a dentist to pull a tooth.

If SHTF and people need guns, a $500 gun will go up in value to more like $1-$2K - just look at the increase in ammo prices over the last year; 9mm ball ammo was less than 20¢ and since then some people are asking (and sometimes getting) $1 per round for FMJ. If guns went up by that much, a $500 Glock would be worth $2500. What services are you going to pay for, or what goods would you accept, where they cost $2500?

Granted, part of the inflation of ammo prices are because they are consumables. OTOH, once you have enough guns, you don't need to buy more guns - they do not get used up anywhere near as fast as ammo - by orders of magnitude; a gun can easily last a century or more - if you wear it out faster than that in a SHTF situation, you are probably going to be killed before you wear it out.

But still, unlike ammo, you can't divide it up to trade one cartridge for a pound of apples.

I have more guns than I need. Some of that is for diversity (I have guns in .30-30, .45-70, .45 Colt to take advantage of ammo supply in those calibers vs. 9mm, .40 & .45 ACP, plus to use them for hunting, but the defensive calibers could be used for hunting just as easily). Some of that is for family or friends that might show up. Some is for neighbors. A gun is going to be one of the last things I barter away, due to its value.

 

[The Heretic]

of course and no doubt about it. What I am getting at is how this affects the rainy day fund? Inflation takes off then you won't want to have extra money laying around would you?

"Extra money" for me is how long I can keep paying living expenses.

My mortgage payments are 80-90% of my monthly expenses. My mortgage payment will not change with inflation. The interest is fixed, property taxes are regulated to not increase by more than a certain amount, insurance (not PMI, but liability and damage insurance) is minimal, but has increased significantly - but OTOH is a small percentage of my costs. All in all, my SS benefits pay for my mortgage, medicare, utilities and food. I don't drive very much any more, so fuel is minimal (less than $100 per month).

So far my "fixed" income matches my costs and I don't see inflation becoming hyper inflation in the future. I've lived long enough to see double digit inflation by the way, and I had a LOT less income and disposable income to spend, but I survived.

I don't personally anticipate having issues with my "extra money", but I can see people who are existing on a marginal income/savings would have problems - BTDT.

As for rainy days - I just had to buy a new freezer. IIRC, it now costs about 20-30% more than what I spent for the very same brand/model about 8 years ago. I think some of that is the last year of cost increases due to the pandemic, and the rest is normal inflation over that period of time.

 

[hellotyler]

Well I also am getting into 'prepping' so I have things like dried fruits and vegetables that would be valueable as well. I happily eat them myself all the time too. Awesome healthy snacks. Guns and cash should be one of the many preperations you make, like diversified savings.

They both also paint a target on your back though, so I don't let the neighbors know I'm into prepping stuff unless we're already friends.

 

[The Heretic]

Well I also am getting into 'prepping' so I have things like dried fruits and vegetables that would be valueable as well. I happily eat them myself all the time too. Awesome healthy snacks. Guns and cash should be one of the many preperations you make, like diversified savings.

They both also paint a target on your back though, so I don't let the neighbors know I'm into prepping stuff unless we're already friends.

All my neighbors have guns, but most would be surprised at how much I have, so I don't talk about it that much with them - they know I have some, they just don't have a clue how much. Even though I trust them, I don't feel I need to let them know those details.

 

[Longwalkhome]

I can find no fault in your thinking gents.

 

[The Heretic]

 

[Longwalkhome]

Might be that bag of unreturned aluminum cans is a gold mine.

 

[Carbon]

Just a side note on PM fakes. I would imagine in a hard times situation, folks would resort to the olde ways of testing and marking coins/bars/etc. For example the US made trade dollars primarily for trade with china back when, in chinese culture countrfeiting is quite common, as was the ancient world. Test cutting to reveal internal metal comp was common, then large lots deemed true to weight and quality would be stamped. In a modern situation, a magnet could help you the most, but the old test cut never hurts. And for the need of a smaller denomonation it was common for old spanish 8 reales to be cut into 8 parts of a pie, then traded in such a way.

 

[The Heretic]

Just a side note on PM fakes. I would imagine in a hard times situation, folks would resort to the olde ways of testing and marking coins/bars/etc. For example the US made trade dollars primarily for trade with china back when, in chinese culture countrfeiting is quite common, as was the ancient world. Test cutting to reveal internal metal comp was common, then large lots deemed true to weight and quality would be stamped. In a modern situation, a magnet could help you the most, but the old test cut never hurts. And for the need of a smaller denomonation it was common for old spanish 8 reales to be cut into 8 parts of a pie, then traded in such a way.View attachment 897879View attachment 897878

Lead and tungsten are not magnetic (tungsten is paramagnetic, but will not attract a magnet).