J&B Firearm Sales
Buster Beaver Cerakote
Oregon Rifleworks
Defensive Arts
Southwest Firearms
HighLine Firearms
Advertise on Northwest Firearms
Low Price Guns
Sporting Systems
Gun Deals
Simply Triggers
Messages
3,432
Reactions
5,661
ALL of the federal, state and local gun laws on the BOOKS and proposed NEW gun laws will NOT PREVENT a MURDERER (ANY AGE!) who wants to do the dirty deed.

Gun, knife, SUV, big truck, rope, bare hands, bathtub, bucket, etc.

The BRAT - MURDERER was NOT even SEARCHED THE DAY BEFORE or the DAY OF THE MURDERS while in the FREAKING SCHOOL OFFICE!

HIS body was not searched.

HIS locker was not searched.

HIS back pack that he TOOK INTO THE BATHROOM and CAME OUT of with the gun while BLASTING AWAY - MURDERING - INJURING PEOPLE was NOT EVEN SEARCHED.

The TIME LINE of all of this MESS is interesting to READ again and I listened to the PROSECUTOR and to other videos with sound from the authorities all over again.

The MOM made the text about not doing it, bla and bla.

The DAD 'rushes' home and finds the gun missing.

It appears to me that the FREAK should have been entirely searched and REMOVED from school whether the parents (!?!) wanted him to GO HOME OR NOT!

I personally BELIEVE that the parents KNEW WHAT HE WAS GOING TO DO even without the school office visits.

They KNEW it no matter what THEY or their LYING dip s!!! DEFENSE lawyers say!

Plus with ALL of the other LE reports and information that has come out and is still coming out - they were FLEEING and tons more.

Etc.

I do NOT believe in the over 20,000 'gun laws'. Hate me for saying this all over again. NO sweat! PUT me on ignore. Thank you.

I do FOLLOW and OBEY the gun laws with that said. ADDED MORE here.

I DO BELIEVE that a parent or an adult who has children or children around who are sane or whacked out should CONTROL HIS OWN GUNS IN HIS OWN HOME. Do it on their own and NOT have another federal or state or local mandated law.

SO much could have been done to prevent all of this but as usual - it is just another BS PASS THE BUCK STORY.

One big cluster you know what!

The MURDERER NEEDS TO GET the death penalty after a fair, quick and sane trial.

No matter if he pleas sane or insane. He has claimed NOT guilty from what I read just as the dip S parents pled. SEE the long MI shooter thread. Thank you.

The KID PREPLANNED all of these murders and in some TWISTED THINKING (NO offense.) - I ALMOST BELIEVE that the parents WANTED HIM TO DO THIS.

I do believe that MK Ultra under another NEW name for programming is still out there. Laugh - I do not give a rat's @@@!

The use of Legal Rx drugs and illegal drugs being PUMPED OUT to every person who wants them or is ordered to TAKE THEM do not help matters in today's world.

LEGAL psycho babble drugs and illegal drugs are extremely powerful and have HUGE side effects.

Especially when it comes to KIDS and teens.

Old Lady Cate

Added more.
 
Last Edited:
Messages
3,432
Reactions
5,661
ALL of the federal, state and local gun laws on the BOOKS and proposed NEW gun laws will NOT PREVENT a MURDERER (ANY AGE!) who wants to do the dirty deed.

Gun, knife, SUV, big truck, rope, bare hands, bathtub, bucket, etc.

The BRAT - MURDERER was NOT even SEARCHED THE DAY BEFORE or the DAY OF THE MURDERS while in the FREAKING SCHOOL OFFICE!

HIS body was not searched.

HIS locker was not searched.

HIS back pack that he TOOK INTO THE BATHROOM and CAME OUT of with the gun while BLASTING AWAY - MURDERING - INJURING PEOPLE was NOT EVEN SEARCHED.

The TIME LINE of all of this MESS is interesting to READ again and I listened to the PROSECUTOR and to other videos with sound from the authorities all over again.

The MOM made the text about not doing it, bla and bla.

The DAD 'rushes' home and finds the gun missing.

It appears to me that the FREAK should have been entirely searched and REMOVED from school whether the parents (!?!) wanted him to GO HOME OR NOT!

I personally BELIEVE that the parents KNEW WHAT HE WAS GOING TO DO even without the school office visits.

They KNEW it no matter what THEY or their LYING dip s!!! DEFENSE lawyers say!

Plus with ALL of the other LE reports and information that has come out and is still coming out - they were FLEEING and tons more.

Etc.

I do NOT believe in the over 20,000 'gun laws'. Hate me for saying this all over again. NO sweat! PUT me on ignore. Thank you.

I DO BELIEVE that a parent or an adult who has children or children around who are sane or whacked out should CONTROL HIS OWN GUNS IN HIS OWN HOME. Do it on their own and NOT have another federal or state or local mandated law.

SO much could have been done to prevent all of this but as usual - it is just another BS PASS THE BUCK STORY.

One big cluster you know what!

The MURDERER NEEDS TO GET the death penalty after a fair, quick and sane trial.

No matter if he pleas sane or insane. He has claimed NOT guilty from what I read just as the dip S parents pled. SEE the long MI shooter thread. Thank you.

The KID PREPLANNED all of these murders and in some TWISTED THINKING (NO offense.) - I ALMOST BELIEVE that the parents WANTED HIM TO DO THIS.

I do believe that MK Ultra under another NEW name for programming is still out there. Laugh - I do not give a rat's @@@!

The use of Legal Rx drugs and illegal drugs being PUMPED OUT to every person who wants them or is ordered to TAKE THEM do not help matters in today's world.

LEGAL psycho babble drugs and illegal drugs are extremely powerful and have HUGE side effects.

Especially when it comes to KIDS and teens.

Old Lady Cate
PS:

I do NOT know if the murdering young man was ON LEGAL Rx drugs or illegal drugs.

I do not know the real truth or FACTS there.

Cate
 
Messages
320
Reactions
540
The freedom to own firearms is awesome but that same freedom is threatened by people who own firearms.

Quite the quandary, or is it just Ironic?
 

gmerkt

Messages
2,886
Reactions
5,999
Recorded school shootings have been going on since 1840. They have increased in frequency and number of fatalities over time, as has the population increased. I attended elementary school in the 1950's, only 13 fatalities the entire decade from school shootings. All onesies except one double homicide. Next decade when I was in junior high and high school, there were about 42 at-school homicides, but one of those was 18 dead from the Charles Whitman UofT shooting in Austin, TX. Whitman was found to have a brain tumor at autopsy.

In the 70's, about 39 school homicides. In the 80's, about 67. In the 1990's, about 118 but 15 of these were at one go at Columbine HS in Colorado. Between 2000 and 2009, about 108 school shootings but 33 were in one bunch at Virginia Tech. Between 2010 and 2019, there were about 181 which included several mass shootings such as Sandy Hook, CT, Roseburg, OR and Parkland, FL. In 2020 and 2021, about 19 school shootings.

I suppose there is a combination of explanations as to why these numbers have increased quite a bit, decade by decade. For one thing, as time goes by there is likely higher accuracy in reporting. I've already mentioned population increase. I wonder at some of the other variables, such as attitudinal changes in society, changes in the nature of stimulations available to school age children, child-raising practices, if there are two parents present in a household and if so both might be working, changes in types of firearms available (insofar as mass shootings are concerned) and so forth.
 
I wonder at some of the other variables, such as attitudinal changes in society, changes in the nature of stimulations available to school age children, child-raising practices, if there are two parents present in a household and if so both might be working, changes in types of firearms available (insofar as mass shootings are concerned) and so forth.
I think all of those things are significant factors adding to the carnage, but in what measure, I do not know.
 
Last Edited:
Messages
2,995
Reactions
8,577
Not trying to stir the pot but the culture in the schools create school shooters. We didn't have any school shootings when kids were sent home to home school. It's the schools that need to change in my opinion. They need to build a culture of respect for each other but it's more of an internet-based culture of bullying and hate.

Public schools changing won't happen of course so about the only safe way to raise kids is home school.
Um...no.

The "culture in the schools" is just one small portion of the overall culture of our society. The problem is the entirety of our current culture, not just what goes on in schools. There is plenty of blame to go around the totality of society...not just the schools.

And this is why the problem is so hard to fix...because you have to fix the entire culture/society that is rotting at its core. That will take generations to do. We didn't get here overnight and where not going to solve this overnight. And that won't happen until people start having an honest conversation about the entirety of the problem. But it's far easier to just blame guns or any other convenient scapegoat. :rolleyes:
 
Messages
320
Reactions
540
ALL of the federal, state and local gun laws on the BOOKS and proposed NEW gun laws will NOT PREVENT a MURDERER (ANY AGE!) who wants to do the dirty deed.

Gun, knife, SUV, big truck, rope, bare hands, bathtub, bucket, etc.

The BRAT - MURDERER was NOT even SEARCHED THE DAY BEFORE or the DAY OF THE MURDERS while in the FREAKING SCHOOL OFFICE!

HIS body was not searched.

HIS locker was not searched.

HIS back pack that he TOOK INTO THE BATHROOM and CAME OUT of with the gun while BLASTING AWAY - MURDERING - INJURING PEOPLE was NOT EVEN SEARCHED.

The TIME LINE of all of this MESS is interesting to READ again and I listened to the PROSECUTOR and to other videos with sound from the authorities all over again.

The MOM made the text about not doing it, bla and bla.

The DAD 'rushes' home and finds the gun missing.

It appears to me that the FREAK should have been entirely searched and REMOVED from school whether the parents (!?!) wanted him to GO HOME OR NOT!

I personally BELIEVE that the parents KNEW WHAT HE WAS GOING TO DO even without the school office visits.

They KNEW it no matter what THEY or their LYING dip s!!! DEFENSE lawyers say!

Plus with ALL of the other LE reports and information that has come out and is still coming out - they were FLEEING and tons more.

Etc.

I do NOT believe in the over 20,000 'gun laws'. Hate me for saying this all over again. NO sweat! PUT me on ignore. Thank you.

I do FOLLOW and OBEY the gun laws with that said. ADDED MORE here.

I DO BELIEVE that a parent or an adult who has children or children around who are sane or whacked out should CONTROL HIS OWN GUNS IN HIS OWN HOME. Do it on their own and NOT have another federal or state or local mandated law.
^^^ So we agree ^^^
SO much could have been done to prevent all of this but as usual - it is just another BS PASS THE BUCK STORY.

One big cluster you know what!

The MURDERER NEEDS TO GET the death penalty after a fair, quick and sane trial.

No matter if he pleas sane or insane. He has claimed NOT guilty from what I read just as the dip S parents pled. SEE the long MI shooter thread. Thank you.

The KID PREPLANNED all of these murders and in some TWISTED THINKING (NO offense.) - I ALMOST BELIEVE that the parents WANTED HIM TO DO THIS.

I do believe that MK Ultra under another NEW name for programming is still out there. Laugh - I do not give a rat's @@@!

The use of Legal Rx drugs and illegal drugs being PUMPED OUT to every person who wants them or is ordered to TAKE THEM do not help matters in today's world.

LEGAL psycho babble drugs and illegal drugs are extremely powerful and have HUGE side effects.

Especially when it comes to KIDS and teens.

Old Lady Cate

Added more.
 
Messages
211
Reactions
211
Dave Grossman mentions it in "On Killling". His premise is that violent media desensitizes people to violence, and violent video games take it one step further as being a form of conditioning in the vein of Pavlov's dogs or similar experiments - target pops up, pull the trigger. Basically, he claims it breaks down the natural psychological barriers humans have that prevent them from killing, which is not something you want to do with an emotionally unstable person. I think he makes a pretty compelling case for it, though I'm sure some will disagree.

As a side note, I would recommend "On Killing" to anyone who carries a weapon so they better understand the psychology behind the taking of human life.
 
Messages
8,607
Reactions
21,730
Here in UK we've had just the one, in Dunblane, in 1996. Sixteen 1st grade kids and their teacher were slaughtered in the gym by a known pedophile with friends in the police who refused to take his guns away. Having achieved his goal, he is alleged to have shot himself.

Over in Northern Ireland they had a twisted mind that made a flame-thrower out of a fire extinguisher and used it in a local Catholic school. Thankfully, nobody died.

That's all there is.
 

gmerkt

Messages
2,886
Reactions
5,999
The problem is the entirety of our current culture, not just what goes on in schools. There is plenty of blame to go around the totality of society...not just the schools.

And this is why the problem is so hard to fix...because you have to fix the entire culture/society that is rotting at its core. That will take generations to do. We didn't get here overnight and where not going to solve this overnight. And that won't happen until people start having an honest conversation about the entirety of the problem. But it's far easier to just blame guns or any other convenient scapegoat.
If I could pick just one major contributory factor to this decline in public morals, it would be permissiveness. A major turning point in my mind was the Hippie and Anti-War movement of the late 1960's, early 1970's. From that point on, discipline in society got onto a slippery slope. Which resulted in a relaxation of disciplinary standards at every level, and a general lack of consequences for bad actors. A progressive decline that has continued up to this very day. Which includes a whole lot of going overboard with respect to entitlement to various rights. We can't expect school pupils and students to respect authority when they see slack all around them in adult society. This lack of discipline extends to the mental sort as well. People who have no expectations put upon them get a lazy mind that can wander off in all directions.
 

bbbass

Messages
14,746
Reactions
32,013

The “common sense gun control” was meant to be used as a joke. But what you said is exactly what I was saying if you read the full article.
The phrase "common sense gun control" would work as a gimmick to attract non-2A or even anti-2A readers. But when used in a gun forum, minds will turn off immediately, because of the history of that phrase is not a good one for gun owners. I almost didn't click and read the article based on that one phrase turning me off!!

In my experience, written jokes often fall as flat as the screen or paper they are written on... w/o some added verbiage or indicator that one is joking, the interpretation is left open to the reader to try to decipher what the writer intended... IMO a risky way to do things. ;)

Otherwise, it wasn't too bad an effort for a Blah, Blah, Blogger who is obviously not a professional writer. But consider a more careful fleshing out of your points, and less "cutesy" comments about da wife. Carry on...
 
Messages
209
Reactions
217
I'm going to use a phrase that many on this forum may knee-jerk reflexively dismiss because of their associations of it with other "leftist" cultural ideas, but I hope you'll hear me out because I think it IS the root cause of these school shootings: "Toxic Masculinity"

It is clear to me, backed by easily found statistics, that the common denominator in virtually all mass shootings (in schools and otherwise) is that they are perpetrated by men and boys. CA Governor Gavin Newsom, speaking after the shooting at the Gilroy Garlic Fest, said “These shootings overwhelmingly, almost exclusively, are males, boys, ‘men’ — I put in loose quotes... I do think that is missing in the national conversation. I think that goes deep to the issue of how we raise our boys to be men, goes deeply into values that we tend to hold dear: power, dominance and aggression over empathy, care and collaboration.” I am right there with him in that belief.

Kids of all types are subject to intense social pressures described by many commentators above: troubled home lives, bullying including through new avenues of social media, pressure to succeed, despondency about the state of the world, etc. "Girls are bullied more often than boys—30 percent of girls experience it, compared with 22 percent of boys. Students who identify their gender in any other way have it worst of all, and are twice as likely as their peers to be bullied," (https://www.glamour.com/story/girls-get-bullied-more-than-boys-survey) and "in general, girls are more often bullied than boys, and girls are also more likely to consider, plan, or attempt suicide compared with boys" (https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/05/190507110457.htm_) but yet they aren't the ones going and shooting up the schools. It's the boys. Why's that?

I think it's because of widespread social pressures placed upon men to be violent, competitive, independent, and unfeeling as a form of idealized masculinity, the constellation of socially regressive male traits that serve to foster domination, the devaluation of women, homophobia and wanton violence. Men and boys will often resort to violence to resolve conflict because anger is the only emotion that they have been socialized to express. In its simplest of terms, toxic masculinity is a system that reinforces male superiority and often uses intimidation, violence, and abuse to maintain that sense of power.
you have to fix the entire culture/society that is rotting at its core. That will take generations to do. We didn't get here overnight and where not going to solve this overnight. And that won't happen until people start having an honest conversation about the entirety of the problem.
I'm firmly in agreement with this quote from earlier in the thread and believe that this sort of widespread toxic masculinity is one example of how this culture/society is rotting at its core. It IS going to take generations. It is going to take concerted work, especially on the part of men, to unlearn and unspin all sorts of cultural ideas about what it means to be a man and the close association of masculinity with physical violence and domination as the way to solve our problems.

I'm happily a man, comfortable in my masculinity, and grateful to have been raised by a father, grandfathers, and other male family friends who did not embody or encourage violence as part of my upbringing. I am NOT dismissing or devaluing a wide range of other, healthier, traditionally masculine cultural traits (such as leadership, strength, courage, providing for one's family, success at work, etc). I believe that there's a tremendous amount of personal and cultural work to do to allow boys/men to express a wide range of emotions, encourage boys/men to demonstrate nurturing, compassionate, and caring behavior toward themselves and others, create openings for other boys/men to share their experiences and feelings, and encourage boys/men to ask for help when they are struggling.

I hope that the men reading this will be able to recognize some truth in what I say without feeling attacked. I hope that you'll take the time for some introspection about your own upbringing and values and explore whether there are ways in which you'd like to shift your own masculinity further away from one that emphasizes emotional repression, violence, and domination as idealized manhood, as well as how you raise your sons and interact with other male youth in your life. I think that, ultimately, this is the cultural answer for how to reduce mass shootings in schools and elsewhere.
 
I was raised with firearms....
I had a close relationship with my Great Grandfather , Grandfather and Dad...all who had been in the military and had seen combat.
These men also taught me to value life ( both mine and the life of others ) , as well as the need for respect and empathy of others.

The above mentioned men...were , however men of their times...and what they said and did , may not be inline with current attitudes , methods or trends of thought..
Which then makes them targets of ridicule when they are lumped into the phrase "Toxic Masculinity".
I , myself have been tarred with this brush as well.

Now I am not saying that all folks who use this phrase do this....
See post #55.....there is a line , so to speak that the poster here is trying to define with the asking of "Why is this".
I see the point of post #55 and agree to an extent....and also think the "Why is this" an important question.

I do however dislike using terms like "Toxic Masculinity" for a couple of reasons :
One , is that the term is subjective at best...and can be easily twisted and abused.
Two , is that use of the term , can in effect , kill the message.
Andy
 
Last Edited:

Xaevian

Messages
3,663
Reactions
9,704
I'm going to use a phrase that many on this forum may knee-jerk reflexively dismiss because of their associations of it with other "leftist" cultural ideas, but I hope you'll hear me out because I think it IS the root cause of these school shootings: "Toxic Masculinity"

It is clear to me, backed by easily found statistics, that the common denominator in virtually all mass shootings (in schools and otherwise) is that they are perpetrated by men and boys. CA Governor Gavin Newsom, speaking after the shooting at the Gilroy Garlic Fest, said “These shootings overwhelmingly, almost exclusively, are males, boys, ‘men’ — I put in loose quotes... I do think that is missing in the national conversation. I think that goes deep to the issue of how we raise our boys to be men, goes deeply into values that we tend to hold dear: power, dominance and aggression over empathy, care and collaboration.” I am right there with him in that belief.

Kids of all types are subject to intense social pressures described by many commentators above: troubled home lives, bullying including through new avenues of social media, pressure to succeed, despondency about the state of the world, etc. "Girls are bullied more often than boys—30 percent of girls experience it, compared with 22 percent of boys. Students who identify their gender in any other way have it worst of all, and are twice as likely as their peers to be bullied," (https://www.glamour.com/story/girls-get-bullied-more-than-boys-survey) and "in general, girls are more often bullied than boys, and girls are also more likely to consider, plan, or attempt suicide compared with boys" (https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/05/190507110457.htm_) but yet they aren't the ones going and shooting up the schools. It's the boys. Why's that?

I think it's because of widespread social pressures placed upon men to be violent, competitive, independent, and unfeeling as a form of idealized masculinity, the constellation of socially regressive male traits that serve to foster domination, the devaluation of women, homophobia and wanton violence. Men and boys will often resort to violence to resolve conflict because anger is the only emotion that they have been socialized to express. In its simplest of terms, toxic masculinity is a system that reinforces male superiority and often uses intimidation, violence, and abuse to maintain that sense of power.

I'm firmly in agreement with this quote from earlier in the thread and believe that this sort of widespread toxic masculinity is one example of how this culture/society is rotting at its core. It IS going to take generations. It is going to take concerted work, especially on the part of men, to unlearn and unspin all sorts of cultural ideas about what it means to be a man and the close association of masculinity with physical violence and domination as the way to solve our problems.

I'm happily a man, comfortable in my masculinity, and grateful to have been raised by a father, grandfathers, and other male family friends who did not embody or encourage violence as part of my upbringing. I am NOT dismissing or devaluing a wide range of other, healthier, traditionally masculine cultural traits (such as leadership, strength, courage, providing for one's family, success at work, etc). I believe that there's a tremendous amount of personal and cultural work to do to allow boys/men to express a wide range of emotions, encourage boys/men to demonstrate nurturing, compassionate, and caring behavior toward themselves and others, create openings for other boys/men to share their experiences and feelings, and encourage boys/men to ask for help when they are struggling.

I hope that the men reading this will be able to recognize some truth in what I say without feeling attacked. I hope that you'll take the time for some introspection about your own upbringing and values and explore whether there are ways in which you'd like to shift your own masculinity further away from one that emphasizes emotional repression, violence, and domination as idealized manhood, as well as how you raise your sons and interact with other male youth in your life. I think that, ultimately, this is the cultural answer for how to reduce mass shootings in schools and elsewhere.
It's a made up term of pseudoscience. A cleverly disguised anti-male stratagem designed to create both hate against men, and guilt within the male community.
 
Messages
209
Reactions
217
Ok, then if the term is what's offensive, take the specific phrase out....

Why, would you say, is it the case that virtually all mass shooters are male? Does anything that I wrote about those cultural values that associate masculinity with emotional repression and violence as a principle means of problem-solving resonate with you or your observations of our society?

I'm certainly not trying to "create hate against men and guilt within the male community," I'm trying to encourage some honest cultural reflection about how we raise our boys and young men.
 
Maybe the answer is not of a culture or cultural refection.....
Maybe the answer lies within oneself.

I say this because at the end of the day , it is not the culture , teachings , learning , influences etc...that make your choices...
its you , that make your choices.

Now I understand that any of the above can help shape thoughts and actions....
I still say that you can decide to do one thing or any number of other things.
So...its your choice...do as you wish...
Understand however that there are consequences for every action.

Which brings about another issue...the acceptance of responsibility and of the consequences of one's actions....or the lack thereof.
Andy
 
Messages
209
Reactions
217
I say this because at the end of the day , it is not the culture , teachings , learning , influences etc...that make your choices...
its you , that make your choices.
Andy, I do agree that ultimately the responsibility for mass shootings are on the shooter. No disagreement there and I'm not trying to put blame on anyone else, but rather trying to search for ways at a cultural level that we might reduce the incidence of such shootings. I also recognize (and hope you as an educator do too) that young, school-age brains are, scientifically objectively, not fully developed and don't have the capacity to fully understand/recognize the consequences of their actions.

I guess I'm saying that the sort of cultural influences that I described could lead a young boy/man to feel extremely limited in the choices available to them. If society has so repeatedly told a young boy, in one way or another, that if you're having feelings anger is the only one you are allowed to express or that if you're having problems violence is the answer, it's easy to understand how a boy like this would feel like his choices were limited.
 
Copeland Custom Gunworks
Let Freedom Ring
Cerberus Training Group
Southwest Firearms
Sporting Systems
Advertise on Northwest Firearms

Upcoming Events

Oregon Arms Collectors January Gun Show
Portland, OR
Wes Knodel Gun Shows
Chehalis, WA
Wes Knodel Gun Shows
Redmond, OR

Latest Resource Reviews

New Classified Ads

Top