Questions for Andy & others on an 1858 Remington - Pietta .44 Revolver

[Longbeard]

Everyone,

I am now the proud owner of a New in Box Pietta/Remington revolver in .44 cal. It is a Steel frame
with a brass trigger guard, fixed sights & an 8" barrel. I was an a G-show a few weeks ago and a fellow
had a very, very used 1858 for $595, I was also going to bid on one at G. Broker but the price went over
$265.00 for something that I could only see on photos so I picked up a new one.

I was also shocked when I was at S. Warehouse today and their BP aisle was 12' long rather than 12".
Things may be looking up for us.

Anyway, my questions are about load volume. I'm not stupid enough to try and make this into a 44 Magnum;
I just want it to shoot it reliably and as close to point of aim as I can get.

Q: I have both Hodgdon 777 in FFFg and Goex in both FFG and FFFg . I'd rather feed it Hodgdon 777
because I can pick it up at a store about 1.5 miles from where I live. Picking up the Goex means a
224 mile round trip for me. I'd rather save the Goex for my Flintlock that can't fire the 777.
Will the percussion cap revolver reliably fire the 777?

Q: The Hodgdon PDF for 777 shows 20-25 grains of 777 for a Steel Frame Remington 1858 in 44.
The Pietta manual shows 12-15 grains with a max of 35 grains (I assume they mean real black powder).
What I was concerned with is the charge being properly compressed, I don't want a small bomb in the cylinder.
When I was at S. Warehouse I found .44-.45 felt wads prelubed with something called Precision Lube 2000 Plus.
Some people suggest even using 2 lubed wads over the powder charge to insure complete compression.

Q: At the same store I found some Hornady .454 lead balls, the manufacture recommends .454 balls but I've
heard other people say to use .451. I was so happy to find .454 balls locally I bought 300...
I'll try it and find out.

Q: Oddly the instruction manual doesn't list a cap size but I have both #10 and #11 caps.

Q: I also found a small tub of Precision Lube 2000 to put over the balls to prevent chain fire. Some people
say to always grease the cylinder some say to never do it- I'll find out.

Blessings,

LongBeard

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[Kruel J]

@AndyinEverson

 

[Ura-Ki]

SCORE!
It's perfectly safe to use 777 in your 1858, just start out on the low end and work up! You will find more isn't always better, due to cylinder gap and such, so play with it until you don't see any gains and that's your happy spot! #10 and 11 caps are pretty standard, the #10's should fit really tight, and the 11, the slightest bit loose, as long as they stay on the nipples, your good ether way! Hard to say for sure which size ball yours will like, if it's really hard to seat in the cylinder, then try the .451's otherwise, the .454's should swedge on the cylinder lip as your seating them! Start out with light pressure on the seating handle and work up a little at a time! A few pounds pressure is about all the pressure you should need!

Best of luck, post pictures soon!

 

[41mag]

I preferred Goex in my Pre 1898 Colts 73 model over 777, as the 777 burned a lot hotter.

It's been over 20 years since retiring my Pistols of the Holy Black, but I do not recall ever using wads in the pistol loads as these were cartridge guns. The short lived experience with the Ruger Old Army cap & ball did have covering cylinder with some kind of grease as a normal process. While of course fun to shoot, I had little extra time to do much beyond the regular SASS matches with BP cartridge guns for a while.

Even 16g Black Powder coach gun was massive smiles. I could load 12g brass BP shells easily enough. Try a 10g BP double barrel some time if you get the chance if you want real fun.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Sounds like a excellent pistol you got there Longbeard...!

I'd try the 20-25 grains of 777 , if that is what you really need / want to do...
I have used that loading in several .44 caliber cap and ball revolvers and gotten "good" results.
.454 round ball ,#10 caps and a greased felt wad...with the 777 and that should shoot just fine

I say "good" results , 'cause I really don't care at all for any black powder substitute ...I understand that "real black powder" can be difficult to find...but in my experience it simply works the best in original or replica firearms...

I will be happy to answer any questions , but as I just got in from rendezvous...I am wiped out.

Again...congrats on the revolver and happy shooting...!
Andy

 

[titsonritz]

I will be happy to answer any questions , but as I just got in from rendezvous...I am wiped out.

Score any new beaver pelts?

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Score any new beaver pelts?

Naw...no new beaver pelts...But I did win a new book and bag ...spent most of my time ,. talking with visitors ....
We hiked into the rendezvous , about 5 miles , and did a lot of show and tell...so it was a busy time for sure...
Andy

 

[Kruel J]

Score any new beaver pelts?

Back in the day I snagged a few pelts.

 

[drstrangelove]

I've tried many powders in my ROA... holy black, Alliant MZ, 777, and Pyrodex P. The best accuracy goes to Pyrodex P. The most reliable ignition goes to holy black. The worst ignition and accuracy goes to MZ. I shoot .454 and .457 balls with equal accuracy. I sometimes use a lubed felt over powder. Haven't found it makes a difference on heavy charges but a good idea on light ones. I do find bore butter over the top of the ball seems to aid accuracy by preventing residue buildup in the rifling, and theoretically its safest to do so.
My ROA exhibits the same accuracy as my Colt 7.5" SAA... clover leafs at 25.

 

[Longbeard]

Sounds like a excellent pistol you got there Longbeard...!

I'd try the 20-25 grains of 777 , if that is what you really need / want to do...
I have used that loading in several .44 caliber cap and ball revolvers and gotten "good" results.
.454 round ball ,#10 caps and a greased felt wad...with the 777 and that should shoot just fine

I say "good" results , 'cause I really don't care at all for any black powder substitute ...I understand that "real black powder" can be difficult to find...but in my experience it simply works the best in original or replica firearms...

I will be happy to answer any questions , but as I just got in from rendezvous...I am wiped out.

Again...congrats on the revolver and happy shooting...!
Andy

Yes, I'll try both. As I said, I try and save my "Real" black powder for my flint lock. If I drive down to Joe & Suzi I tend to spend
quite a bit of money to make the trip worth it. Just today I purchased a wooden recurve bow with all of the accoutrements
so I need to sit on my cash for a while.

My next project is a Lyman Great Plains Pistol (or Pedersoli) in .54 to go with my .54 Lyman Great Plains Rifle.

Blessings,
Longbeard

 

[Longbeard]

Naw...no new beaver pelts...But I did win a new book and bag ...spent most of my time ,. talking with visitors ....
We hiked into the rendezvous , about 5 miles , and did a lot of show and tell...so it was a busy time for sure...
Andy

Teaching new comers about something you have a passion for is always a good day.

LongBeard

 

[Longbeard]

I've tried many powders in my ROA... holy black, Alliant MZ, 777, and Pyrodex P. The best accuracy goes to Pyrodex P. The most reliable ignition goes to holy black. The worst ignition and accuracy goes to MZ. I shoot .454 and .457 balls with equal accuracy. I sometimes use a lubed felt over powder. Haven't found it makes a difference on heavy charges but a good idea on light ones. I do find bore butter over the top of the ball seems to aid accuracy by preventing residue buildup in the rifling, and theoretically its safest to do so.
My ROA exhibits the same accuracy as my Colt 7.5" SAA... clover leafs at 25.

Thank You.
LB

 

[balaperdida]

A clarification and an update.

FWIW - Today I contacted Hodgdon regarding 777 3F loads for my Uberti Walker because I noticed that the description in Cabela's mentioned up to 60 gr (BPV?) load. This much powder fills the chamber, which results in compression of about 35-40% [when using a 0.457 ball and an over-the-powder wad]. The Hodgdon rep. stated that 777 is 15% more energetic V/V than BP, AND that pressure increases with compression. I requested pressure vs. compression data. If Hodgdon responds and allows, I will post data.
BTW, I used to have a Pietta Rem 1858. I didn't know the chamber would take 60 gr.

As of 27 Sep 2019, no response from Hodgdon on the pressure vs. compression request.

Stay safe

 

[Ura-Ki]

Taggin in @v0lcom13sn0w here!
My experience with H777 is to NOT compress it very much, yes it does build energy, but it can also get dangerous with too much pressure!
GOEX FFFg seems to be the sweet spot for me, but it's a lot harder to come by, and with it you can compress it a little more and still be in the safe zone! Honestly out side my Ruger Old Army's I wouldn't try to push too much out of these .44's as they are plenty stout as it is! I don't think you are going to find much improvement beyond 25 to 28 grains measure and a little pressure!

Depending on the quality of the replica, there are a few companies out there that can deepen the cylinders enough to really open up the power curve safely, but it's expensive to have done, and the gains are only really going to show through hunting! My Rugers had the Cylinders opened up and can take about a 34 gr charge of FFg under a 250 gr Flat nose conical and I'm seeing about 1060 FPS out of them, that's some SERIOUS power for these revolvers! I WOULD NOT push a Pietta or Uberty like that!

 

[tac]

A 100gr load by volume of Pyrodex P or RS has an equal effect to a 110gr load of FFFg black powder.

A 100gr load by volume of Triple 7 has an equal effect to a 115gr load of FFFg black powder.

The manufacturers do NOT recommend the compression of Triple 7 loads past the 'firm' positioning of the projectile onto the propellant.