Question on a couple of old Winchester shotguns

[AndyH]

My father has a couple that he wants to sell but I dont really know that much about them .

1948 Winchester Model 12 16ga with something called a polychoke
1951 Winchester Model 97 12Ga

Both are fully functional and in good to VG condtion*considering there age.

Looking for any input on value and what a reasonable asking price would be?

Thanks

Andy

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[M67]

It should be pretty easy to find info on them both online.

As for an average price they would sell for check these sites. Just be sure to check completed sales and not just what the sellers are asking at buy it now prices, the price between the two can be quite a bit different.

http://www.gunsinternational.com/Winchester-Model-12-Shotguns.cfm?cat_id=698&start_row=101

http://www.gunsinternational.com/Winchester-Model-97-Shotguns.cfm?cat_id=788

GunBroker.com - Advanced Search

Guns for Sale, Gun Classifieds, Gun Auctions, Shop for Guns at GunsAmerica

 

[AndyH]

Been the gun broker route and there tends to be such a large swing in value that it makes it hard to get an accurate reading.

I am googling like crary though...

 

[M67]

Maybe someone on here has a current bluebook of gun values, that can jump in and help, if the links i posted don't help you.

 

[jbett98]

GunBroker has an "advanced" button on their search bar.
Click that open and then click on the "show only" icon.
Choose "going, going, gone".
Then type in what you are researching in the search bar above. That way you are only viewing firearms that have sold in the last year or so.

 

[Mark W.]

Andy just so you know when it comes to firearms condition is condition a 100 year old firearm is not allowed to be in poorer condition then a 10 year old firearm and still carry the same condition rating.

A 95% gun is a 95% gun no matter what its age and a 50% gun is a 50% gun reguardless of age.

And in almost every case condition is the first thing to look at when determining value.

If you would like some help really good clear SHARP closeup photos would really help.

 

[Spitpatch]

Mark W, I will not dispute your statements regarding percentages of wear.

HOWEVER: I will point out that NRA Condition Descriptions ARE divided into two categories: NRA Modern Condition Descriptions, and NRA Antique Condition Descriptions.

SO: A 100 year old firearm IS allowed to be in poorer condition than a 10 year old firearm, and still carry the same CONDITION rating("Good", "Fair", "Poor", etc.).

Andy, the 16ga Model 12 with a PolyChoke is precisely what my first repeater shotgun was. The PolyChoke was all the rage in the pre-war/post-war years, and many guns had these (as well as the Herter's Vari-Choke). It allows the shooter to select his choke instantly in the field, with just a turn of the knurled exterior of the device: and they REALLY WORK! Basically, the internal portion is "segmented", very much like a drill chuck is segmented, and turning the exterior on its threads, either expands or constricts the "fins" of the choke (again: like a drill chuck).

The drawback is appearance: they made a graceful gun look like someone punched it in the nose. Another drawback (in your case) is that an unaltered gun would bring more money.

Your Model 97 took a skyrocket jump in value over the past 15 years or so, due to the Cowboy Action shooting discipline. I'd trust the market prices toward that regard rather than "the books" to assign value.

Field grade prices for "fair to good" on both guns are very comparable: $400-600. The suggested GunBroker "what the gun sold for" strategy is very helpful for real-world pricing. Single Action Shooting Society (SASS) website might help you find a true value on the 97, due to its desirability in that discipline: Replica 97's are being made, but it has become a status symbol to show up with a real one.

 

[Mark W.]

Actually Spitpatch the NRA uses a very complicated rating scale for Modern and Antique

which to the looks of it does not really cross over well between modern and antique.

The National Firearms Museum: Evaluating Firearms Condition

 

[AndyH]

Thanks guys, I think I have what I need, In fact I believe the model 97 has found a new home already.

 

[Spitpatch]

In my circles, guns are offered as "NRA good" "NRA excellent", etc. This is also the rating system(s) documented at the outset in the Blue Book. Mr. Supica does raise some very valid points, and his complaints mirror my own, as to certain features ignored, complexity, subjectivity, etc.

A close friend in Montana with a fine collection of Winchesters (assortment and condition of which makes my collection look "bush league") came up with a condition rating which I really like. I had managed to locate an '86 carbine (one of the rarest Winchesters), and sent him pictures, asking for his opinion.

He rated the gun, "Attic Mint" condition. In his evaluation, this is a gun that certainly shows its age and appropriate wear, but no abuse, all screws unturned, no modifications since factory. Basically, an "unmessed with, honest gun". (As if it has been in someone's attic for the majority of its age). I'm adding this category to my rating system.

 

[EMP9596]

Spitpatch Thanks!

We have a Winchester model 12 16ga with the Deluxe Poly Choke that is a family handmedown that we are keeping for the youngest boy in the military and that is exactly what it is.

"Attic Mint"... Need to add a "new rating" to a couple in the book.

 

[Mark W.]

Record collectors do this as well and it makes it very hard to actually know what you are buying unless the Record or in this case weapon is in your hands (the reason rating systems were started was so that if the guidelines for the rating system were followed then the buyer would have some clue what a firearm was before or if he/she wasn't able to have it in hand.

For Firearms there is the NRA rating system for Records there is Goldmine.

If people add to and make up new catagories the system is near worthless

IMHO

 

[EMP9596]

Mark, It's tounge in cheek... I have three rifles and one pistol that are not going anywhere in this generation and I am only 67. They are going to stay in the family as they now have for three generations.

Are you a vinyl collector? What is an Elvis 33 1/3 'Blue Moon over Kentucky' on the Sun label worth?
I cannot remember what's on the flip side right now. We just got rid of a ton of Tommy Dorsy/Glen Miller albums and early pre and post WW2 78's.

 

[Spitpatch]

Thanks, EMP. Clarification is always welcomed. (I couldn't find the "tounge-in-cheek" smiley icon. Sunglass dude had to suffice, but apparently he failed.)

 

[mjbskwim]

So,after all this talk,what did y'all come up with?
$450 each?

 

[Spitpatch]

I'd hedge a bit on the Model 12 if offered at $450, due to the polychoke, and replaced buttstock. However, I think the 97 would bring more if shown in hand to a Cowboy Action shooter. The model 12 might be a good candidate for the Simmons company "makeover": for about $1200-1300, they overhaul it completely, fancy wood, install a rib (solid or vented), Invector choke, fine blue, action polish, and as I failed to mention, the older 16 ga shotguns should have the ejection port expanded a bit to truly allow for a 2-3/4shell (the original 16ga was a bit shorter, SOME guns have trouble cycling the new stuff). Basically, Simmons turns a garden-variety Field Grade Model 12 showing wear into a Trap Grade gun that is brand new.

 

[EMP9596]

Been the gun broker route and there tends to be such a large swing in value that it makes it hard to get an accurate reading.

I am googling like crary though...

Dogpile Web Search This site is a combination of most search engines and has no restrictions on firearms. * site search is not case sensitive.

http://www.dogpile.com/search/web?qsi=1&q=winchester model 12&fcoid=4&fcop=results-bottom&fpid=2

 

[EMP9596]

Here is the latest post already:

Question on a couple of old Winchester shotguns - Dogpile Web Search