National Question/Advice re: Buying Reloads

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I’m not a lawyer.

But my reading of this article I found a few days ago suggests that a slightly different arraignment may have been legal. From the article:

“However, the reloader is not a manufacturer of shells or cartridges if, in return for a fee and expenses, he reloads casings of shells or cartridges submitted by a customer and returns the reloaded shells or cartridges with the identical casings provided by the customer to that customer. Under such circumstances, the customer would be the manufacturer of the shells or cartridges and may be liable for the tax on the sale of the articles. See section 4218 of the Code and § 53.112.”
 

oremike

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I hate seeing storys like this because I get lumped in with those guys. For the record, I have and keep up my Class 06 Ammunition Manufacturers license and insurance. Per my understanding of the law, I have to have the FFL on display, and in fact I carry a copy in my wallet. I've seen guys like this at the Portland gun show selling un branded reloads and when asked about it I was told they just wanted to make some fast cash. As a shooting enthusiast this set off warning bells in my head and I wouldn't buy that ammo. Some people need to "get the deal" at any cost. This is the ammo for them. As far as turning him in, sounds like the legality wasn't an issue for you but not "getting the deal" was. You might want to re-calibrate your moral compass. Or you can just complain about it on the internet.
 

RVTECH

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I hate seeing storys like this because I get lumped in with those guys.
Personally I do NOT see you getting 'lumped in' at all with someone like this.

The OP described a situation where unfortunately AMMO was potentially used as a ruse to lure someone into a dangerous situation. Anything of value could be used to lure unsuspecting people.

The OPs response to this person was incredibly naive and quite frankly he is lucky to have avoided it, and maybe he is alive because of last minute changes which hopefully prevented any harm to himself.

Lets not forget Jeffrey Dahmer or Ted Bundy and how easily they lured people in with simple 'offers'
 

OldTengu

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I hate seeing storys like this because I get lumped in with those guys. For the record, I have and keep up my Class 06 Ammunition Manufacturers license and insurance. Per my understanding of the law, I have to have the FFL on display, and in fact I carry a copy in my wallet. I've seen guys like this at the Portland gun show selling un branded reloads and when asked about it I was told they just wanted to make some fast cash. As a shooting enthusiast this set off warning bells in my head and I wouldn't buy that ammo. Some people need to "get the deal" at any cost. This is the ammo for them. As far as turning him in, sounds like the legality wasn't an issue for you but not "getting the deal" was. You might want to re-calibrate your moral compass. Or you can just complain about it on the internet.
I would hate to hear that you’re getting lumped in with those kind of folks. Wouldn’t hate buying some ammo from you, though.
 
OP
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You didn't mind the legalities until he refused to sell to you, now you're asking us for a blessing and a pat on the back.

Look somewhere else
I'm asking for no blessings, nor pats on the back. I simply wanted to share what happened to me, my naivety and idiocy. I was hasty about it, and silly. I truly feel if we can't share our mistakes, learn from them, and offer them to others to learn from, what's the point in a community?
I am not upset that the gentleman did not sell me the ammo, and to be brutally honest, I was hesitant in general after finding out about his license lapse and non insurance. I will admit that I was taken in and allured by his deal, it's virtually impossible to find affordable ammo right now, and since I love shooting and want to shoot often, I thought this could be a great bargain. My concern is and has been about morality: as a law abiding citizen and responsible firearm owner, I feel as though I have a duty to our brothers and sisters in arms to make sure others are safe and responsible; am I morally obligated to report this type of behavior? It is possible that this unlicensed manufacturer could put a person in position to risk life or limb, and that concerns me.

Who knows, maybe there's a ton of us who have made this same mistake in our lives and have been too ashamed to admit it and ask for advice and help from those more knowledgeable.
 
OP
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I hate seeing storys ... moral compass. Or you can just complain about it on the internet.
thank you. a genuine thank you. some of this stuff is difficult to navigate.
I have very few people I can turn to in the firearms community for advice, lessons, or general firearms related camaraderie or enthusiasm.
Major thanks and gratitude towards everyone who's taken the time to share their opinions, knowledge and perspective on this. It is really appreciated.
 

XoXSciFiGuy

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My unsolicited advice is to let it go and forget it. Reloads? Maybe. Stolen ammo? A possibility. Maybe he figured you might spot the difference since you asked those questions, and got spooked.

Whatever is the problem, I would write him off. If you contact that three-letter organization, BOTH of you are going to get checked out by them. These days, this is about the last thing you want to happen if you are a gun owner...especially one who was considering accepting a shaky deal on supposedly reloaded ammo, or possibly STOLEN reloaded, or maybe stolen and not reloaded at all. Who the heck knows?

He could even have been UNDERCOVER...and backed off once he realized you were an honest guy. That would have been entrapment and might not have held up in court once you got arrested.

You did the right thing by asking the questions. I would leave it there. If he ever calls you back, tell him "Not interested and don't call me again" and HANG UP.
 

Lasers

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Not illegal amigo. This has been beaten to absolute DEATH on this forum.
You're right, but he's correct.

Educate me if I'm mistaken, I'm always learning... but it is illegal to reload ammunition with the intent to sell without a license to do so. That's what he clearly describes above.

That withstanding, it is completely, 100% legal to sell reloaded rounds as components to another shooter. As the seller, you are representing them for their pure component value, not as live rounds.
 

Dyjital

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You're right, but he's correct.

Educate me if I'm mistaken, I'm always learning... but it is illegal to reload ammunition with the intent to sell without a license to do so. That's what he clearly describes above.

That withstanding, it is completely, 100% legal to sell reloaded rounds as components to another shooter. As the seller, you are representing them for their pure component value, not as live rounds.
If you make a livelihood out of manufacturing ammo, you should be licensed to do so.

On the flip side, I could sell the ammo I have loaded, caveat emptor, to anyone and be in the clear. I’m not in the livelihood nor do I make it to cover my bills.

if you take on that endeavor on a large scale, you’d be insured as well. Small time loaders who do low cost loads aren’t a big priority for the Candy Man.

As with any loaded ammo, make sure you trust the source. John Wayne Gacy from Cabelas parking lot may not be the best source but your friend who’s loaded a million rounds and does it one at a time would be a better source. I have 200 9mm loaded rounds on my bench waiting for a buddy to pick up.
 

BillyJean

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Not illegal amigo. This has been beaten to absolute DEATH on this forum.
Manufacturing ammo with intent to sell to without a license is absolutely illegal. That is why there are licenses for ammo manufacturing for non-personal use. Making a "livelihood" and "should" are clues you don't know what you're talking about. You should be more careful about what you post.
 

Dyjital

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Manufacturing ammo with intent to sell to without a license is absolutely illegal. That is why there are licenses for ammo manufacturing for non-personal use. Making a "livelihood" and "should" are clues you don't know what you're talking about. You should be more careful about what you post.
You are painting a wide brush stroke, mine was specific. .
 
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