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Question about 594
- Thread Starter JohnnyD
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No, only if they temporarily or permanently change hands. Whether or not, at some point, the law decides that possession of an unregistered firearm is prima facie evidence of an illegal transfer is yet to be discovered.
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Don't forget to carve out some time to vote and tell everyone you know to vote NO on I-594 and YES on I-591 to prevent this bullcrap initiative from becoming law.
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Yep. We'll just have to wait and see how it goes...it's a quick move across the river, I suppose
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Sorry from Oregon.
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Well first off NONE of your guns are registered in WA as there is no way possible to do it, unless you own NFA stuff.
594 is NOT registration, and without registration there is no true way to enforce this law. Look for registration to come next if we can not get this law dumped.
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Wrong. All retail handgun sales are recorded by the Washington Department of Licensing. You may notice that second form you fill out when you buy a pistol or AR lower (regardless of what you are building - pistol or rifle.)
I-594 is effectively registration as this recording of handgun purchases will be expanded to include private (now brokered by FFLs) transfers & sales.
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Ok, if all of my handguns are registered how come I can buy and sell freely without any paperwork (before 594)? The state has NO way of knowing what I do and do not own, since there is no registration. They have no idea if I own 0 or 10,000 guns. They DO have a record of last sale of any firearms I did at an FFL.
I never got a registration card to go with any of my Title 1 firearms. I do not have to tell the state (before 594) if I am selling any. I don't have to tell the state if I change address.
So I guess somehow I missed the registration part. I do have Title 2 firearms and those ARE all registered.
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"...The firearms program provides local law enforcement agencies with the information they need to assure that licenses are issued only to individuals who are eligible under state law to possess firearms. It is vitally important that this information be accurate and kept up to date for use by law enforcement to investigate criminal activity, and to arrest and prosecute individuals who violate state and federal laws using a firearm.
This program area receives more than 50,000 concealed pistol licenses, 50,000 handgun transfers, and 600 firearm dealer licenses annually. These documents are reviewed for accuracy and completeness and the information is entered into the computer database. DOL annually records over 35,000 conviction documents and involuntary mental health commitment notices when the courts have removed an individual's firearm possession rights.
This information is maintained in the firearms database, which is made available to law enforcement agencies through the Washington State Patrol, which allows 24 hour per day access to the records.
The available recorded information has been enhanced with the migration from the Unisys mainframe system to a server based data system, which came online in March 2004. ..." -- <broken link removed>
Call it what you want, but since any cop car in WA right now, with computer access can see my vital statistics, to include a list of my ownership of a certain type of private property (just those handguns purchased through a FFL in WA for now), it satisfies what I'd need to call it a registry.
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You mean ASSUMED list of ownership. They have no proof you own ANY of them.
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As time moves on, and law-abiding citizens comply with I-594's transfer requirements, guns will change hands, and the database will grow.
I would venture to guess that 10 years from now, even in a legitimate self-defense scenario, someone who uses an "unregistered" firearm will be painted as a criminal, even if they legally acquired the firearm used for legitimate self-defense prior to I-594. You will have no ability to prove the date you acquired the firearm, and the prosecutor will use this to paint you as a menace to society.
While this is terrible, and I don't like it, I believe it to be a realistic scenario when you look at the mind of those opposed to firearms ownership. They want to make an example out of gun owners.
Personally, I have always only purchased my guns from licensed dealers to have a paper trail and background check on record for my own peace of mind, including trade-ins at a considerable loss so I could show that I no longer owned the firearm in question and that the new pistol would be under a different name in the DOL database when purchased.
To each their own...I hate that I-594 now forces people to use a dealer to broker transfers, restricts temporary transfers so harshly, and caps transfer fees. I'll probably move back to Oregon within a year out of protest.
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Yes this means all transfers will have to go though an FFL, but it is still not live tracking like true registration. Not that this is any better, but there has to be REAL registration for 594 to work.
With the 4473 or the "pistol" form it is not a live trackable database. If you have ever purchased a gun though an FFL it will ALWAYS show up as you having owned it. That sale does not go back into a database as you "selling it". The next time it is sold it will just show the new buyer as the last record of sale.
With the 4473 or the "pistol" form it is not a live trackable database. If you have ever purchased a gun though an FFL it will ALWAYS show up as you having owned it. That sale does not go back into a database as you "selling it". The next time it is sold it will just show the new buyer as the last record of sale.
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You are arguing semantics. Whether I show as a "seller" or that I was a buyer #1 and the new person is buyer #2 that is still a paper trail which shows that I no longer owned the firearm. Also, paired with a physical receipt showing trade in for serial # _______ there is an instantaneous paper trail which can be provided should the cops come knocking on my door.
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When does this law go into effect?
If FFLs are required now to complete the WA State pistol form for all transactions all the firearm details including serial number are included.
Ok what about buying a gun out of state like Idaho and then coming home with it? Now would that have to go thru a background check?
Also how are they going to even police this issue? there is so many guns out there that are not registered and have pasted thru so many hands how would they tell if you got it yesterday or 5 years ago?
What if i sold it to someone out of state?
This law doesn't seem to have much weight. Only on sales of anything registered to some one after 594 goes into effect. So my understanding is (correct me if I'm wrong) that if you are to buy a gun that was in owner ship and not registered before 594 then there is no way to tell who has the gun at any time. Such as if i wanted to hand my unregistered gun to Bill for a min and then somehow someone told a police officer "look hes holding that guys gun" well since its not registered could i just say "thats not mine that's his gun. When the officer looked Bill is holding the gun so 9/10 of the law comes into effect.
I might be way off on all or just have no idea what i am even talking about. As i have stated on other boards that i am new to gun owner ship and am learning all i can. I think i have way to many question for a forum and prob should just sit down with someone and yak it up.
Also how are they going to even police this issue? there is so many guns out there that are not registered and have pasted thru so many hands how would they tell if you got it yesterday or 5 years ago?
What if i sold it to someone out of state?
This law doesn't seem to have much weight. Only on sales of anything registered to some one after 594 goes into effect. So my understanding is (correct me if I'm wrong) that if you are to buy a gun that was in owner ship and not registered before 594 then there is no way to tell who has the gun at any time. Such as if i wanted to hand my unregistered gun to Bill for a min and then somehow someone told a police officer "look hes holding that guys gun" well since its not registered could i just say "thats not mine that's his gun. When the officer looked Bill is holding the gun so 9/10 of the law comes into effect.
I might be way off on all or just have no idea what i am even talking about. As i have stated on other boards that i am new to gun owner ship and am learning all i can. I think i have way to many question for a forum and prob should just sit down with someone and yak it up.
