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As with most mass Produced items Quality starts With the individual components.If you have 1 poorly produced Part It only compound see issues As you move out in assembly An analogy would be building a house on an unlevel foundation, Things only get worse the more you progress. I think a lot of it depends on corporate ethics, Consider Glock, capable of turning out 10s of thousands of guns and week and their quality remains fairly high. I assume that you may be speaking about the ar market when you speak about rifles with canted sights, the same holds true. With parts sourced from a variety of component manufacturers, in bulk, quality will vary. Contrary to what your rifle maker will tell you they likely don't "make" all their parts in house.
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I haven't bought a new gun recently enough to compare build quality against the pre-1980s. A sample size of <2 of all types is not a statically significant sampling.
I do, however know something about guns and production & inventory control.
If guns today were built with the methods and technology used on the inter-war Mausers, the Colt Pythons of yore, the SAA, the Luger, et.al. nobody could afford to own them.
I have had the chance to look at recent manufacture Savage and S&W pieces. They deliver (for the most part) better performance than all but the best of the old guns. They were made with machines capable of much better precision than was available in pre-NC manufacture days, so any hand-fitting is minimal to none. When I graduated from gunsmithing school in 1982 one of the classes was "Accurizing Bolt Action Rifles." Today you can buy an entry level rifle that shoots as well as anything I could have built then.
Good QC happens with effective process control. It is built in, not inspected in.
Ref. Post #2.
Glock has had time to work out any bugs in their manufacture and supply chain, and they have a properly functioning manufacturing facility.
ARs assembled from parts are a good example. It is fundamental to good quality to eliminate any non-conforming parts as early in the process as possible, that any defects that occur during manufacture are not passed on, and the root cause of those defects is determined and corrected.
Good Production and Inventory Control practices will yield a superior product with minimal waste and non-conformances. Some people know this and implement those practices and some don't. It requires that they care about quality and that they know how to achieve it.
_OR_
Maybe the bean counters just drive it into the ground and leave.
I do, however know something about guns and production & inventory control.
If guns today were built with the methods and technology used on the inter-war Mausers, the Colt Pythons of yore, the SAA, the Luger, et.al. nobody could afford to own them.
I have had the chance to look at recent manufacture Savage and S&W pieces. They deliver (for the most part) better performance than all but the best of the old guns. They were made with machines capable of much better precision than was available in pre-NC manufacture days, so any hand-fitting is minimal to none. When I graduated from gunsmithing school in 1982 one of the classes was "Accurizing Bolt Action Rifles." Today you can buy an entry level rifle that shoots as well as anything I could have built then.
Good QC happens with effective process control. It is built in, not inspected in.
Ref. Post #2.
Glock has had time to work out any bugs in their manufacture and supply chain, and they have a properly functioning manufacturing facility.
ARs assembled from parts are a good example. It is fundamental to good quality to eliminate any non-conforming parts as early in the process as possible, that any defects that occur during manufacture are not passed on, and the root cause of those defects is determined and corrected.
Good Production and Inventory Control practices will yield a superior product with minimal waste and non-conformances. Some people know this and implement those practices and some don't. It requires that they care about quality and that they know how to achieve it.
_OR_
Maybe the bean counters just drive it into the ground and leave.
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Please name the rifles/brands/etc.
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When you ramp up production trying to meet demand, QC goes down in order to save time.
Member 53328
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If it's AR15s I tend build my own so I am to blame if the build is shoty. Other firearms I have bought recently have not had any issues. I think in the current market the color green has everyone In hyperdrive trying to make as much as possible. Normally as production increases, QC will decrease to some level.
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It's not uncommon when places are trying to run 24/7 to catch up that QC can suffer. As another poster mentioned to a lot of makers buy parts from other vendors who are also running 24/7. I too would like to hear both which guns, and most important how did they treat the buyer? There is no such thing as mass production that does not crank out some problems. How they treat the buyer who gets a problem is what really matters to me.
I have a couple PCC's made by TNW that I love. I tell anyone who asks me about mine to NOT buy one. The place has earned a reputation of once they have your money you no longer matter. Damn shame but once they treated me like that it was the end of my business. I will gladly give my money to places I hear treat the customer great if they get a problem.
I have a couple PCC's made by TNW that I love. I tell anyone who asks me about mine to NOT buy one. The place has earned a reputation of once they have your money you no longer matter. Damn shame but once they treated me like that it was the end of my business. I will gladly give my money to places I hear treat the customer great if they get a problem.
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Already stated.
Bottom line, panic time is not a good time to buy for a multitude of reasons, this is one of them.
Bottom line, panic time is not a good time to buy for a multitude of reasons, this is one of them.
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The only time a manufacturer can ramp up production without losing much of any QC is if they're already set up for mass production and experienced it. Usually military manufacturers.
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This is why the Bulgarian AK's, FB Radom AK's, Zastava AK's, CZ firearms, etc etc are still great quality... they make the same amount
Zastava pistols are great to. Just don't have the fanboy following .
.I would take one and trust it over many US pistols
The name is a little long to put on Hats & Tee shirts
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1) "When you ramp up production trying to meet demand, QC goes down in order to save time."
This is a common perception. The sad part about it is that Quality doesn't cost - it pays. A lot of people view QC as inspectors removing defective products from being shipped, but quality can not be "inspected in." It has to be built in. Every non-conformance that gets passed along in the manufacturing process indicates time and money wasted. The only way to increase efficient production is to have good process control and sound production and inventory management practices.
2) "The only time a manufacturer can ramp up production without losing much of any QC is if they're already set up for mass production and experienced it. Usually military manufacturers."
Not necessarily. Agreed that military manufacturers usually have their production facilities up and running and this can be a big help. Or not depending on whether they are using sound production and inventory control practices to start with. Increasing production without loss of quality involves implementing and constantly improving process control that finds and eliminates the causes of non-conformances.
This is a common perception. The sad part about it is that Quality doesn't cost - it pays. A lot of people view QC as inspectors removing defective products from being shipped, but quality can not be "inspected in." It has to be built in. Every non-conformance that gets passed along in the manufacturing process indicates time and money wasted. The only way to increase efficient production is to have good process control and sound production and inventory management practices.
2) "The only time a manufacturer can ramp up production without losing much of any QC is if they're already set up for mass production and experienced it. Usually military manufacturers."
Not necessarily. Agreed that military manufacturers usually have their production facilities up and running and this can be a big help. Or not depending on whether they are using sound production and inventory control practices to start with. Increasing production without loss of quality involves implementing and constantly improving process control that finds and eliminates the causes of non-conformances.
Good question.
Topic makes me think of this...
Remington’s WWII Experience With 2-Groove Rifling - Remington Society of America
Some folks consider a record of military history merely an interesting read as a story. General George S. Patton's view was slightly different. In his opinion, if it couldn't be used to learn from...either correcting failed behavior or coming up with better solutions for the future, what good is...
www.remingtonsociety.org
Not directly related though, I know. But do manufacturers really "turn up the speed" on all the machines in times like these? There's no war? Just a bunch-a' crazy gun enthusiasts buying up everything they can. And if the manufacturers REALLY did speed everything up, where are all the guns?
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