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I stand for Colin's right to do what he is.
Go find Jim Browns' comments from his interview on NFL Network.

Why do we play the Anthem at the start of a sporting event, anyway ?




8-mins
Jim Brown on Colin Kaepernick: 'I am with him 100 percent'


We play it because they used to open every game with the colors entering the coliseum and anthem playing. It is a brief moment when we are not for the home or visiting team, we are neither black, white, Asian, Hispanic or whatever. We are Americans in that moment, enjoying the sport of our choice, safely, a pastime, a passion, a sport. But we are together, free, and having an opportunity to feel vicariously the thrill of victory and the agony of defeat....to take a moment to remember our friends and family who are not present on a sunny Sunday afternoon, who serve ashore and afloat, in foreign lands and seas, in harm's way. We honor them and remember them by standing for the Star Spangled banner. We are not perfect, but we are Americans, all of us.

Brutus Out
 
Two world wars we were dragged into kicking and screaming, and in pretty much both cases it was as a result of political leadership pushing us to get into the war. With WW1 it was Wilson with the Zimmerman telegram, and the sinking of the Lucitania, had mexico initiated hostilities as a result of the ZT, I might feel differently, at the same time, we would probably have about a dozen more states. For WW2, FDR pretty much dared the Japanese to attack, I'm not saying we wouldn't have to fight them at some point, in fact this was probably one war we had no option to sit out.

Anthems, flags, pledges, are not what the United States is about, it's about the idea that a free people can govern themselves instead of looking up to a group of autocrats or hereditary kings. If you need a flag and a pledge or an anthem to get you over the hill I don't know what to tell you.

The flag, the anthem and the pledge are all great. I'm not about to demand burning someone at the stake because they didn't offer it the appropriate level of respect. Even then, it's decidedly counter to the values that define this country to do so. That's that funny thing about the first amendment.

As for Kampernek (sp? don't care) this is probably one of those things where he's looking at getting cut, and he wants to say it's about X when it's really about Y. I'm unwilling to add to the backlash, call for his head, because frankly, if not for this thread, I wouldn't know his name, and I will probably forget it again within a few hours. I don't know why there's a market to pay people millions of dollars to chase around things made of rubber and leather, and people want to put that on TV, when instead you could be out playing in the yard with dogs (who also chase rubber and leather for the price of food, vet bills, and poop cleanup).

Generally, this thread calls to attention how screwed up our priorities are.


Wow, you don't really get it...THE FLAG IS the one symbol of what we are all about. 240 years of history, good, bad and indifferent, the Constitution, the Declaration, the BOR all rolled into one symbol.... but we are far freer than 99% of the rest of the world. No nation is perfect but name one with the same rights, privileges as us, maybe Switzerland?
As for WWI, I wouldn't exactly call unrestricted submarine warfare in WWI as dragging us in kicking and screaming and as for FDR, for all his faults, he didn't force JAPAN in to attacking us. They chose to attack us and the GB Commonwealth as part of their empirical attempt to establish the Greater Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere they wanted to install in Asia with them in charge. Hardly forcing them. Finally, I know of no one who demanded young Colin be burned at the stake. It's very disrespectful to most Americans.

Brutus Out
 
Wow, you don't really get it...THE FLAG IS the one symbol of what we are all about. 240 years of history, good, bad and indifferent, the Constitution, the Declaration, the BOR all rolled into one symbol.... but we are far freer than 99% of the rest of the world. No nation is perfect but name one with the same rights, privileges as us, maybe Switzerland?
As for WWI, I wouldn't exactly call unrestricted submarine warfare in WWI as dragging us in kicking and screaming and as for FDR, for all his faults, he didn't force JAPAN in to attacking us. They chose to attack us and the GB Commonwealth as part of their empirical attempt to establish the Greater Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere they wanted to install in Asia with them in charge. Hardly forcing them. Finally, I know of no one who demanded young Colin be burned at the stake. It's very disrespectful to most Americans.

Brutus Out

No, I get it just fine. Symbols are symbols. What the QB did was a symbolic act. His symbol means nothing to me.

Lets look at this another way: I don't care if someone goes to my church or not, I think they should go to church because it might make them a better person. Then along comes some atheist loud mouth, who starts in with the usual "waah there is no god, you're a moron", why is he doing that? Because he wants to convert me to his way of thinking. I don't have a problem with him thinking there is no god, that's between him and god, however if I react to him calling me a moron, it doesn't make my life better, in fact it makes it worse, because I gave him the power to get me to react.

If QB really cared at all about making a statement, he could abruptly stop playing, that would probably get him a lot more press. But the reality is, he likes money, and making callow symbolic gestures that have essentially zero affect on his day-to-day life is what this whole thing was about.
 
Small point and not picking on anyone.
But not every atheist is a loud mouth who wants to convert you to their way of thinking.

I for one would never belittle anyones religious beliefs.
Nor call them a moron for believing in God or god or gods etc...

As for the National Anthem and the US flag , these are indeed symbols.
Regardless of their historic origins and the background in which they came to be.
The problems with symbols are :
That they can mean many different things to different people.
They can be as powerful or powerless as people make them.
They can be an emotional link to a set of ideas , thoughts and beliefs etc ...
It can be difficult to work with or talk about ideas , thoughts and beliefs once emotion plays a part.
What they represent can change over time.
They can be used for both good or ill.

I think that by not standing during the playing of the anthem is disrespectful or at the least a misguided way of making your point , sending a message , protest etc ...

It is disrespectful for just what the anthem means to people , both in reality and emotionally.
Misguided because if you are disrespectful , whatever you are trying to say will get lost in your action.
( Even if you are sincere in your message , protest etc ... )

Again , not picking on anyone , just my 2 cents and they might not be worth that LOL
Andy
 
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No, I get it just fine. Symbols are symbols. What the QB did was a symbolic act. His symbol means nothing to me.

Lets look at this another way: I don't care if someone goes to my church or not, I think they should go to church because it might make them a better person. Then along comes some atheist loud mouth, who starts in with the usual "waah there is no god, you're a moron", why is he doing that? Because he wants to convert me to his way of thinking. I don't have a problem with him thinking there is no god, that's between him and god, however if I react to him calling me a moron, it doesn't make my life better, in fact it makes it worse, because I gave him the power to get me to react.

If QB really cared at all about making a statement, he could abruptly stop playing, that would probably get him a lot more press. But the reality is, he likes money, and making callow symbolic gestures that have essentially zero affect on his day-to-day life is what this whole thing was about.

You may be making it too complicated, AMP. After seeing him for a few years, I'm pretty convinced that he's too stupid to be able to even recognize a significant action! It's just a, "Please! I'm relevant!" plea. Still can't wait to see some linebackers get ahold of him! :D Like I said before, don't care for the guy!;)
 
So how many of us hawk fans are ready to boycott to prove a point to the NFL? If the nation banded together and didn't watch or attend the rest of the preseason. That fool would be thrown out of the league.
 
I think that by not standing during the playing of the anthem is disrespectful or at the least a misguided way of making your point , sending a message , protest etc ...

It is disrespectful for just what the anthem means to people , both in reality and emotionally.
Misguided because if you are disrespectful , whatever you are trying to say will get lost in your action.
( Even if you are sincere in your message , protest etc ... )

Again , not picking on anyone , just my 2 cents and they might not be worth that LOL
Andy

Good post, Andy. I think that respect, like love, is something you give, not something you receive. If you want someone to respect your point of view, you had better respect theirs. If you can't give love to someone, there is no way they will ever give love to you.
In this case, it would mean maybe standing during the anthem but not singing along or whatever, and then talking about why you don't agree with the singing of the anthem at sporting events. Write an open letter, or call a press conference, or whatever.
If you give someone respect, they will respond in kind, and consider your viewpoint for a moment. His message is lost in the outrage that people feel over his disrespectful gesture. No one who is offended by it will even begin to try and consider his point of view.
The same thing goes for the topic of religion! I'm not a big fan of organized religion but I would never begrudge someone their spiritual beliefs. I do think that atheists are for the most part a bunch of buzzkill poetry assassins though.
 
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There are thousands of people who hang flags on their pickup trucks or where ever, never taking them down at night, or if it rains. That, to me, is far more insulting than some clown not standing up at a sporting event.
 
+1 2506 point of how people disrespect our flag.

I just watched on TCM Grand Prix
the USA flag was dragged across the track - some of the other nations flags were not (depended upon the actor carrying the flag I guess)





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It was 'cut time' in the NFL, so that is entirely probable this is a ploy to avoid it. Which would make him even more despicable, if that's possible.

This is exactly what Kaepernick is pulling. He knows he is done, and that he blew his chance of being a legendary quarterback from one of the top 5 teams to ever play in the NFL. If he is lucky he will end up at one of the perpetual NFL bottom feeder teams making a hell of a lot less money or worse he will go to the Canadian League or Arena Football.

This is just a parting shot temper tantrum by an idiot IMO

Tommy Sotomayer says it better than I ever can.

Warning - Tommy does some cussin'

 

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