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Pump or Auto

Discussion in 'Rifle Discussion' started by M.Link, Oct 10, 2010.

  1. M.Link

    M.Link Guest

    I thought I had my mind set on an 870P for HD, now I'm considering a 11-87P instead. Any thoughts on what works better. I've always liked Pumps better, but see a lot of "tactical" autos now.
     
  2. MountainBear

    MountainBear Sweet Home, OR Well-Known Member

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    Hard to find a round that would jam up or fail to function a pump. There are too many variables in type and power in shotgun ammunition for me to trust them in a pump. And as much as I like Remington as a brand, I have dealt with too many that were ammo specific. They don't seem to be consistent. Some feed everything you can give it, some won't shoot low-brass loads or other low pressure loads. No problems with the pump. Just my experiences and two cents...
     
  3. jordanvraptor

    jordanvraptor Oregon City, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I have thought of picking up a Remington 1100 and modifying it for HD. Pumps are more reliable but an auto can be too if you find the right load or do a little tuning of the gas system. If a shotgun is going to be HD then you will probably be using either #4 or OO buckshot. Some of the low recoil loads may falter the gas system but regular stuff should work fine. I have a bullpup shotgun that is a cool range toy but really don't use it for HD. Like with any other automatic, you have to match the load to the firearm.
     
  4. toobigtofail

    toobigtofail PDX Member

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    Pumps are more intimidating. Don't discount the power of intimidation in home defense.
     
  5. MountainBear

    MountainBear Sweet Home, OR Well-Known Member

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    Agree with everything you say. All good points. I like to shoot my guns a lot though, and training with large amounts of 00 buck or other high quality ammunition can be expensive. I can run anything I can through my 870 when I am at the range and it will function similar to my 00 buck I keep it loaded with the rest of the time...
     
  6. EZLivin

    EZLivin SW of PDX Well-Known Member

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    One thing to consider (with any firearm) is availability of ammo. I went with a pump because I know it can pretty much handle anything that is on the shelf at BiMart, Walmart, or wherever. That gives me comfort in times of ammo shortages.
     
  7. doobee8

    doobee8 Salem, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Auto. Short stroking a pump is a possibility under stress. Benelli or Saiga.
     
  8. swoop

    swoop Milwaukie, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I like autos for sport and pumps for combat. ;)
     
  9. Chuhuahua

    Chuhuahua Washington County New Member

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    There is nothing like hitting 8 targets before the first ejected shell hits the ground... That said, you can only do that with an auto.
     
  10. oregonshooter

    oregonshooter AMERICA Member

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    The 1100 and 11-87 are terrible choices for a SD shotty. Take a close look at how they feed shells from the mag to the chamber and you will see the flaw. There are WAY TO MANY things that can go wrong with this spring actuated loader style.

    The only auto I would have for SD is a Benelli M90/M2 but I can have 3 solid 870s for the same price.

    My 1100 is my 3Gun rig because my life does not depend on it's action working 100%. My 870's action works 100% and it defends my life.

    Saiga? Might as well use an M4 if that is where you are headed.

    Shotguns are for a very specific roll, not a substitute for a carbine.
     
  11. keystir

    keystir Hillsboro, OR Active Member

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    +1. With a pump most bad guys just drop everything and wet their pants at the sound of a shell just being chambered, so you don't really have to worry about ammo. :thumbup:
     
  12. M.Link

    M.Link Guest

    I don't like the Saigas at all, just not my thing. I think I'm kind of leaning towards the 870P. I can order one for about $350 used, and as said, they are super reliable. I was also messing with my dads 1100 (duck gun) and really hate having to push te little button to mover the elevator so you can load a shell. I can reload my 870 duck gun way way faster.
     
  13. Mookie

    Mookie Eastern Washington Active Member

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    I once pumped my shotgun and crime stopped for a month.

    For home defense there are quite a few reliable semi auto's. the 1187 or the Moss 930 are two good example, probably the best on the market right now is the Benelli M4, but it costs.

    However, if you prefer pumps, stick with what you are most comfortable with.

    Myself, I have a Mossy 935 with 00 buck. Why? Because it is more reliable than my 870 has ever been.
     
  14. oregonshooter

    oregonshooter AMERICA Member

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    Mookie,

    How can you call an action that depends on mag spring tension and shell weight to hit a ramp release "reliable?" The Remington auto's just are not a SD gun people, they never were designed to be.

    I'm curious to hear your 870 issues?
     
  15. HahnsXD

    HahnsXD Battle Ground WA Active Member

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    Right :rolleyes: Besides, the sound of an S12 bolt slamming forward is just as "intimidating" as a pump.


    Once I got my S12 and converted it and corrected the flaw in the gas system, the 870 went bye bye.
     
  16. wired

    wired Yakima Well-Known Member

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    The Saiga 12 is one of the most unreliable semiauto shotguns on the market. You can make it reliable but its going to take work and even then reliability is going to be from the shoulder. In a home defense situation firing from the shoulder is not a guaranteed thing. You don't want to be clearing jams in the dark in a hallway.

    You want a dead nuts reliable shotgun with whatever ammo you feel like running in it get a Benelli M2.

    The intimidation factor of pumps is pump shotguns is a stupid and naive concept. A dedicated armed perp breaking into your house is going to shoot you if he hears you racking the slide of a shotgun. He is not going to run off pissing his pants. You have seconds in a home defense situation to make life and death decisions. Don't waste that time with an unchambered gun.


    cimg0707.jpg
     
  17. oregonshooter

    oregonshooter AMERICA Member

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    wired,
    Your assumption is "dedicated" and "armed" which most burglars are not. Racking a shotgun is like using pepper spray. It only works on the uncommitted, but it works a large percent of the time, and you lose nothing using it.
     
  18. wired

    wired Yakima Well-Known Member

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    Which one do you have? Committed and armed or lazy and unarmed? Even if you have a "good" thief only 5% of the time that 5% is enough to get you killed when he happens to be in your home and you are fiddling around trying to load your shotgun.

    In my home an intruder gets a belly full of buckshot 100% of the time whether he thought enough to bring his own gun or not.
     
  19. oregonshooter

    oregonshooter AMERICA Member

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    So are you saying you would rather kill the intruder than stop the intrusion?

    That's how it comes across in a public forum at least.

    1. How come I'm the guy who is "fiddling" with a shotgun and getting killed? How long do you think it takes to rack a shotgun? It's a lot less than getting to the shotgun in the first place, which is not beside my bed as I'll assume yours is?

    2. The shotgun in my home is the gun I fight to with my CCW (Sig P228) which is beside my bed.

    3. I will know there is someone attempting to break into the house long before they breach it. It's called a Maltese-Dotsun mix alarm system.

    4. I'm guessing you guys are planning on a home invasion being the incident and that you have no time to rack a shotgun in that case, no? Guess what? I agree with you. Matter of fact, I'll bet you have no time to get to the shotgun in that case and if you do... the extra 1/2 second to rack the slide ain't gonna mean life or death for you, so the point is mute IMO.

    5. A grandchild can pull the trigger, they can't unlock the slide and rack one into the chamber. Spare me the "teach your kids" speech, if anyone was going to go there.
     
  20. wired

    wired Yakima Well-Known Member

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    That is what would stop the intrusion. Expect the worst and act accordingly. Its not a question of using the least amount of force necessary to stop an intrusion. Its a question of how to stop an intrusion decisively. That would be with the immediate death of the intruder(s). Helping the intruder to prepare for my presence and pinpoint my position by racking the slide of a shotgun is not good planning. M2 Benelli under the bed. Loaded with 6 in the tube, One in the elevator and one in the chamber. Safety on. Goes back in the safe when I get up in the morning.