Sporting Systems

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PSA of the Day - Out of state private party transfers and online sales. Handguns, Semi auto rifles, lowers, frames and "others". As a border region shop, we are faced with this more often than many shops, but the same applies to private party or online sales. With the number of transactions occurring, we're seeing a huge spike in denials so we thought we'd share this.

A WA resident purchaser, if the background check is DENIED and the seller is a non resident of WA, the transferring dealer/FFL has to send the item back to the SELLER via a Dealer/ FFL in the seller's state of residence. This means, that the buyer or seller will need to pay for freight to ship the item to the FFL, and likely pay a fee to that dealer for the transfer. Its not our item, so our shop isnt responsible for freight. Waiting periods and delays apply to the return transfer too. Everybody loses.

Want to make it even worse? If its a semi automatic rifle that is denied, under I-1639 it's illegal for us to send that rifle to a non resident at all, INCLUDING an FFL/Dealer or manufacturer. (this is the basis of our interstate commerce lawsuit against the state of WA/month 18 of that suit). This is why we will not transfer semi auto rifles from private parties and would prefer not to accept them from online sellers either. We are now stuck with a firearm in our inventory that we can neither transfer back to the seller, nor deliver to the to the buyer. What are we supposed to do with that item? How does the buyer get refunded? It puts the shop in an awkward position, in how to help the seller/buyer recover their money. Losing deal, for everyone.

Want to make it even worse? Often the seller will attempt to sell the item to someone else. Most often, a friend or spouse of the original buyer. That, on the face is the definition a straw purchase which is both a state and federal crime. It earned us a one star review and a bunch of angry voicemails last month when we wouldn't transfer the item to the buyers wife. Losing deal, for everyone.

How to avoid these pitfalls? As a seller, know this going in if transferring to an out of state resident. There could be some terribly inconvenient costs if the buyer is denied. As a buyer, if you're occasionally denied, be real careful about purchasing anything from an out of state seller, especially any semi auto rifle.

What questions should you ask your FFL?

"How do you handle out of state denials, and what are your costs for denied transfer?"

How does our shop handle denials? The buyer's transfer charge is non refundable, we've completed all of the work as we would a PROCEED, but now we have more work to do. We have to report the DENIAL to the State's Sheriffs and Police Chiefs Association, go through the Denial reporting with the buyer and then arrange to transfer the item back to the seller, which is either shipping it back or performing the transfer of the item back to the seller. We do not charge the seller a transfer fee when returning an item to them, but an out of state FFL certainly will.

Of course, buying from a local dealer, avoids MOST of the complications of a denial.

The more you know. Please share your thoughts or experiences in the comments field.
 

gmerkt

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If its a semi automatic rifle that is denied, under I-1639 it's illegal for us to send that rifle to a non resident at all, INCLUDING an FFL/Dealer or manufacturer.

I'm trying to understand this statement. Do you mean, the gun in question came in from an out of state seller, the potential buyer in Wash. is denied, you as a dealer cannot send the semi auto rifle back to its place of origin?

How does the buyer get refunded

Not to mention the seller.

Under WA law, it is legal for me to sell a semi auto rifle to an out of state buyer and ship it myself directly? As federal law permits.

Thanks for the detailed info.
 

Sporting Systems

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>I'm trying to understand this statement. Do you mean, the gun in question came in from an out of state seller, the potential buyer in Wash. is denied, you as a dealer cannot send the semi auto rifle back to its place of origin?

Correct, because they are not a Washington resident. We have challenged this in Federal court.



>>Not to mention the seller.

That's between them and the buyer, and it puts the dealer/FFL in the middle of a transaction they had no financial connection to.


>>Under WA law, it is legal for me to sell a semi auto rifle to an out of state buyer and ship it myself directly? As federal law permits.

No, that's a violation of Washington 1639, no semi auto rifle can be sold, transferred or delivered to a non resident of Washington.



>Thanks for the detailed info.

You bet.
 
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What is the process for a lower with no upper?
As an ar-15 lower could be used in bolt action form. This making it no longer a semi automatic.
So if no upper is provided with the fire arm who’s to say it’s a semi automatic?
 

Sporting Systems

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What is the process for a lower with no upper?
As an ar-15 lower could be used in bolt action form. This making it no longer a semi automatic.
So if no upper is provided with the fire arm who’s to say it’s a semi automatic?

A lower receiver/frame/other is a nics check in your state of residence.
 

arakboss

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@Sporting Systems
As the seller who received payment up on transfer filing, it's no longer their legal concern if buyer is denied. The buyer is the one who loses. A seller could offer to take back the firearm but deduct from the refund the amount it would cost seller to receive firearm back, including shipping cost to ffl and transfer fees seller has to pay to get firearm back. There again buyer loses. It would be nice for seller to explain how they will handle this to the buyer ahead of time, so there are no suprises.

Tigard Pawn 4 More has a policy that if a firearm is left in their possession for more than 30 days they keep it for themselves.
 
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Thanks for the information Dan. Shipped an AK up north last year and boy was that stupid.

I’ll stick to my guns, pun intended, and start to enlarge my already capitalized “NO SHIPPING” part of my classifieds.
 

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