Poll: provocative poll

[Just Jim]

Don't think I am going to get into this thread, I told the management I wouldn't upset people.

 

[Scvette]

Um ok then...thank...you I guess.

 

[U201491]

Regarding my post on gun free zones. What I said was that if you must have gun free zones they must be enforced, otherwise they are not truly gun-free. Court houses are an example. Schools are not, which is why we have experienced increased number of mass shootings. You can either allow firearms in schools, carried by school staff and parents, or you can make an enforced zone. The latter is expensive, which is my way of getting rid of them ;-)

So no, not a troll, and very much pro gun. Have more than a dozen.

You cannot make any area a gun free zone.
Any nut that wants to take a gun into one will do so regardless of your rules.

The only effective means to counter that is to have enough good citizens armed and able and willing to counter by force. You cannot create a damned police state and have an armed guard every 10 feet, or you do damage to the country and the constitution. We already have a police state being developed and that trend needs to be reversed.

.

 

[RVTECH]

What I said was that if you must have gun free zones they must be enforced

Well, start by asking the liberal crusader who accomplished this great feat of establishing a 'Gun Free Zone' exactly what his or her plan was for doing so. I guarantee you it will be something like this: "Well we are now a gun free zone so anybody who brings a gun in the area will be breaking the rules" and you ask how they plan to enforce this it will go something like this: "Well when we finally have laws banning all guns then we will safe because it will be illegal to have guns". I am sure the extent of establishing a 'Gun Free Zone' never made it past having the signs posted.

 

[U201491]

Well, start by asking the liberal crusader who accomplished this great feat of establishing a 'Gun Free Zone' exactly what his or her plan was for doing so. I guarantee you it will be something like this: "Well we are now a gun free zone so anybody who brings a gun in the area will be breaking the rules" and you ask how they plan to enforce this it will go something like this: "Well when we finally have laws banning all guns then we will safe because it will be illegal to have guns". I am sure the extent of establishing a 'Gun Free Zone' never made it past having the signs posted.

Yeah. and ask the villagers of that town in Mexico where all guns are banned if it mad a difference when the entire village was shot, beheaded and their heads stuck on all the local fence posts.

Yeah gun free zones are real winners for the criminals, the cartels and the government...
FOR THE PEOPLE NOT SO MUCH..

IE; GUN FREE ZONES-HELL NO !!!

Kenesaw and Chiloquin where everyone is required to be armed, HELL YES.
Crime avoids those towns !

 

[RVTECH]

Yeah. and ask the villagers of that town in Mexico where all guns are banned if it mad a difference

Yea - at the previous company I worked for one of the lot porters had relatives in some small village in Mexico who sent him video of what happened when a drug cartel took over. While not as tragic as the aforementioned the village was essentially deserted with all shops and stores looted. His relatives has essentially been run out never to return - and this was not an isolated scenario and largely in part NOT reported on in the news.

 

[Just Jim]

I do wonder, all those Mexicans killed by the cartells, did they use the guns supplied by Fast and Furious? So here is my confusion as I read, where does the free come in?

 

[U201491]

Yea - at the previous company I worked for one of the lot porters had relatives in some small village in Mexico who sent him video of what happened when a drug cartel took over. While not as tragic as the aforementioned the village was essentially deserted with all shops and stores looted. His relatives has essentially been run out never to return - and this was not an isolated scenario and largely in part NOT reported on in the news.

Yep that is what happens when you have gun free zones or gun free countries. Anyone that wants to, and you can believe it they will, can go in and have a free for all and commit murder, mayhem, genocide and terror.
The only real deterrent to that is an Armed citizenry. True freedom is the means and ability to fight for that freedom, (and that means armed), and the willingness to give your life for your heirs so they can have that freedom as you have.
If you are not willing to do that then you are already a slave and servant to all the evil that exists.

 

[Just Jim]

Yep that is what happens when you have gun free zones or gun free countries. Anyone that wants to, and you can believe it they will, can go in and have a free for all and commit murder, mayhem, genocide and terror.
The only real deterrent to that is an Armed citizenry. Tru freedom is the means and ability to fight for that freedom, and the willingness to give your life for your heirs so they can have that freedom as you have.
If you are not willing to do that then you are already a slave and servant to all the evil that exists.

You mean free to gun you down zone don't you? Really isn't that what a gun free zone is?

 

[U201491]

You mean free to gun you down zone don't you? Really isn't that what a gun free zone is?

Exactly !

 

[Just Jim]

As to the poll, excons should not be given their gun rights back to them but in some cases should be able to earn those rights back. Imo.

 

[boogerhook]

Yep that is what happens when you have gun free zones or gun free countries. Anyone that wants to, and you can believe it they will, can go in and have a free for all and commit murder, mayhem, genocide and terror.
The only real deterrent to that is an Armed citizenry. True freedom is the means and ability to fight for that freedom, (and that means armed), and the willingness to give your life for your heirs so they can have that freedom as you have.
If you are not willing to do that then you are already a slave and servant to all the evil that exists.

You may find this interesting. Not often will a police official suggest armed citizenry as a viable option (Sheriff Clarke being an exception), so for Interpol to hang in Macy's window is remarkable. http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/exclu...ief-ponders-armed-citizenry/story?id=20637341

 

[BoonDocks36]

As to the poll, excons should not be given their gun rights back to them but in some cases should be able to earn those rights back. Imo.

Now, JJ, you have a point there!!! I know so many who say "time served" and give back their rights... I do not subscribe to that concept.

If they did something to Society, enough to hit the big Gray Bar Hotel, there needs Restitution, to society... Given the modern prison institutions, they do Nothing within, to repay society.

Do they even pay the costs of the court system? No.
Do they pay for their room & board? No.
Do they pay for their security? No.

I am quite serious about this!!! Taking a person out of contact with Society, ~because~ They violated societies rules... Is for societies needs. But Society also pays for it.

Return to old fashioned road crews, the ~Chain Gang~ would at least pay their way for food, lodging, and dependent upon the Quality of work, even partially offset the cost of guards...

A great example, here in Lane County, several years ago, I tried to Help, a person who got out early, on good conduct earned early release.... I now no longer believe that system is effective, seeing this person, who at the time, had a Predicted .001% potential of Recidivisism ... But he was Back in, less than five years after getting out... He had a super job, when he got out, high skill levels (learned on our dime) but he could not Not stay out... He was commited again, did his parole time as hard time, etc...

When I was helping him, he was given "Day Jail", a laugh, if I have seen one: arrive by 8:00 theory was out at 4:30, but 9 days out of 10, they were let go by two... With freedom at nights... I drove there, waited in town, and drove him home.

The interesting part was this: those Incarcerated at Lane County Jail, who had "Good Time" could shorten that, by picking up the litter in front of the jail, or raking leaves, Oh My, how difficult a job, and That reduced their time????

Hog Wash.

Give them real work, not teen ager work, I used to do that for five bucks a yard... And Police Call in the Army...

philip

 

[boogerhook]

Now, JJ, you have a point there!!! I know so many who say "time served" and give back their rights... I do not subscribe to that concept.

If they did something to Society, enough to hit the big Gray Bar Hotel, there needs Restitution, to society... Given the modern prison institutions, they do Nothing within, to repay society.

Do they even pay the costs of the court system? No.
Do they pay for their room & board? No.
Do they pay for their security? No.

I am quite serious about this!!! Taking a person out of contact with Society, ~because~ They violated societies rules... Is for societies needs. But Society also pays for it.

Return to old fashioned road crews, the ~Chain Gang~ would at least pay their way for food, lodging, and dependent upon the Quality of work, even partially offset the cost of guards...

A great example, here in Lane County, several years ago, I tried to Help, a person who got out early, on good conduct earned early release.... I now no longer believe that system is effective, seeing this person, who at the time, had a Predicted .001% potential of Recidivisism ... But he was Back in, less than five years after getting out... He had a super job, when he got out, high skill levels (learned on our dime) but he could not Not stay out... He was commited again, did his parole time as hard time, etc...

When I was helping him, he was given "Day Jail", a laugh, if I have seen one: arrive by 8:00 theory was out at 4:30, but 9 days out of 10, they were let go by two... With freedom at nights... I drove there, waited in town, and drove him home.

The interesting part was this: those Incarcerated at Lane County Jail, who had "Good Time" could shorten that, by picking up the litter in front of the jail, or raking leaves, Oh My, how difficult a job, and That reduced their time????

Hog Wash.

Give them real work, not teen ager work, I used to do that for five bucks a yard... And Police Call in the Army...

philip

A little bit the model of the Foreign Legion.

 

[Slobray]

So really I guess I mean to ask: how do you fix the system so violent offenders who SHOULDN'T be released aren't released?

Easy, execute all of those that shouldn't be released ie murderers, rapists, child molesters, certian assaults (where a person is maimed). Why should we pay for their room, board, education, frivilous law suits, etc, when they have no use to society? When I say execute them, I mean in the most cost effective way, like hanging, I'm sure that a small diameter steel cable would last for many hangings, as would a well constructed gallows.

As for the non-violent offenders BoonDocks36 has it right.

Return to old fashioned road crews, the ~Chain Gang~ would at least pay their way for food, lodging, and dependent upon the Quality of work, even partially offset the cost of guards...

philip

I would take the chain gang one step further, you don't work, you don't eat and you sleep on the floor.
I say once you violate someone else's rights, you forfeit yours, either forever or a suitable amount of time to repay your debt (court costs, reimbursement for those who've been wronged, the cost of keeping you in prison and so on)


Once your debt has been payed, you get all your rights back.


Ray

 

[freestoneangler]

I chose the correct answer... now what?

 

[boogerhook]

I chose the correct answer... now what?

I don't think there is an correct answer ;-)

 

[Riot]

Yes, but with exceptions...I don't think, necessarily, that some people should always be locked up for life- but still have their firearms rights be revolked.

Nevertheless, the blanket "you committed a felony so you should never have a gun again" one-punishment fits all crimes system we have now is kind of bullcrap. Crimes not involving violence (drug use, DUIs, fraud, embezzling) shouldn't automatically bar you from ever gaining your rights back again...I mean, there's a statute of limitations on these crimes, right? Yet once convicted, you're punished for life (voting, guns, etc.).

However, I also think that some people should have their firearm rights revolked, EVEN IF THEY HAVE NOT BEEN CONVICTED OF A CRIME.

Mental health issues, drug treatment, domestic violence disputes...in some of these incidents it is best to have them temporarily forfeit their firearms until they get squared away (drug treatment, counseling, etc.). Nevertheless, these times are abused by the system and other parties (usually disgruntled spouses or family members) to punish others...and this crap can be costly. Our legal sytstem definitely needs some bugs ironed out, that's for sure!

 

[Just Jim]

I chose the correct answer... now what?

I guess the prize is booger hook will hook your boogers

 

[Scvette]

Yes, but with exceptions...I don't think, necessarily, that some people should always be locked up for life- but still have their firearms rights be revolked.

Nevertheless, the blanket "you committed a felony so you should never have a gun again" one-punishment fits all crimes system we have now is kind of bullcrap. Crimes not involving violence (drug use, DUIs, fraud, embezzling) shouldn't automatically bar you from ever gaining your rights back again...I mean, there's a statute of limitations on these crimes, right? Yet once convicted, you're punished for life (voting, guns, etc.).

However, I also think that some people should have their firearm rights revolked, EVEN IF THEY HAVE NOT BEEN CONVICTED OF A CRIME.

Mental health issues, drug treatment, domestic violence disputes...in some of these incidents it is best to have them temporarily forfeit their firearms until they get squared away (drug treatment, counseling, etc.). Nevertheless, these times are abused by the system and other parties (usually disgruntled spouses or family members) to punish others...and this crap can be costly. Our legal sytstem definitely needs some bugs ironed out, that's for sure!

A person can get all there rights back. I think the only felony you can't get your rights back are federal felonys. I'm not a lawyer,but I have all my rights restored,I had a non violent,not against a person felony 30yrs ago in Alaska,I received a SIS and after 1 1/2 yrs my conviction was set aside and all my rights were given back. On the 4473 form question 11 asks have you ever been convicted of a felony,then says see exception c I think and it states if your conviction was et aside you can answer NO. I sometimes had delays buying,was even denied once and got to talk to a ATF agent,it was all cleared up in about a week,I have since applied and received a UPIN,but haven't bought anything to try it out.