Providence Goes "Gun-Free?"

[Joe13]

It's just a sign to cover their rear ends in an instance when someone with serious mental issues shows up and shoots someone.

Then they can point at the sticker and say, "We did all we could, don't sue us...".

 

[etrain16]

Oops... When I said force of law... I worded that wrongly.

The trespass is what I was referring to.

I've seen no exceptions that state we as CHL holders can go against their corporate policy and be allowed to trespass legally with something they ban from the premises.

I mean when their rights as a company and their private property end, so do mine by whom I allow on my property, and what I allow here.

Marijuana is banned from my property. Doesn't mean that if you have a dope card you are allowed on this property with it.

We are granted the ability on public property, state property and private property that does not prohibit it - to carry concealed.

(Let's avoid the legalistic ramblings on if this is legal in the first place to sell a right back to citizens)

I get where you're coming with the private property qualification - I feel strongly about property rights, for myself and for businesses. But I can't give up my personal rights just because of private property rights. That said, I would distinguish someone smoking pot on a property versus someone carrying a gun for personal defense as very different things.

First, while it may be legal in Oregon to purchase and use marijuana, no one has a constitutional right to purchase, use or carry marijuana. Plus, if someone was on your property with pot, had some in their pocket, but didn't use it, then likely you wouldn't even be aware they have it, so no one knows.

But regarding carrying a gun, I do have a right, under the constitution of the United States, as well as the State of Oregon, to have a gun for self defense, with a minimal number of restrictions under the law. It could be argued that someone excluding me from carrying on their property potentially is stepping on my personal rights. So I reason it this way - unless a private property owner is making specific provisions to otherwise protect me from harm, then it is my right and responsibility to take that on for myself. Since they won't ever know I have it unless I draw it to use it, then no one is the wiser.

I do get and understand your point, and I do agree for the most part. I prefer as often as I can to respect the private property/business owner's restrictions. But, when it comes to my personal safety and the safety of my family, I'm willing to step over that line and put them ahead of the 'request' of the property owner. Worst case scenario is that I won't be allowed there again.

 

[308]

Unless they have armed security with scanners like the BPA building by Lloyd Center, it is not possible to enforce. BPA security would not let me through with my pocket knife, but if that same knife were in the tool bag I was carrying I would have passed thru.

 

[evltwn]

I went with my wife when she got a mri yesterday at a local hospital. As we entered, I noticed the "No weapons, no cell phone operation" sign on the door. I turned off my phone. One out of two is a reason able request, in my estimation.

 

[ernurse]

I work in an ER, cant hide or carry in scrubs. We all know its a very dangerous place to be. And trust me , we don't duck and cover.

 

[ernurse]

Matter of fact a large portion of the ER staff is going shooting today.

 

[bolus]

I went with my wife when she got a mri yesterday at a local hospital. As we entered, I noticed the "No weapons, no cell phone operation" sign on the door. I turned off my phone. One out of two is a reason able request, in my estimation.

out of 20 years in medicine, I've never seen a cell phone interact with any medical equipment in any way even carrying one myself. So the same idiot administrator who probably thinks cell phones are dangerous to patients thinks the no gun signs will work.

Though I probably have one or two patients a day who answer a call while at a visit with me and then proceed to take the call while I wait for them to finish. I would want my sign to say "if your call is more important than your doctor visit, schedule back at a later time"

As everyone probably knows, the security guards at these hospitals are not armed. We also know that sign wont stop someone looking for easy targets.

 

[BanjoGeek]

I noticed this new sticker a couple weeks ago at my work (as you can see, the sticker still has bubbles in it) and am a bit troubled at my place of work becoming an explicit soft target. I work in the most secure part of this hospital, so I'm less concerned for my own safety than the safety of others who work in the more vulnerable areas, such as the ER.

Of course, this sign has no real legal significance in Oregon, but I'd like to know if anyone has any ideas of how to "educate" the Providence overlords as to the danger of putting such signs up around the hospital.

Thanks!

***If this question is better suited for another forum, please move it***

View attachment 296615

Trust me on this one, management will not listen to any take on this except their own.

 

[bolus]

I work in an ER, cant hide or carry in scrubs. We all know its a very dangerous place to be. And trust me , we don't duck and cover.

Pistolwear makes a jogging holster that is elastic and fits under loose clothing without needing a belt to hold it up.

PT-ONE Concealment Holster (http://www.pistolwear.com/pt-one-concealment-holster/)

 

[Osarion]

Think of it like a club with a dress code. They can have a no t shirt rule, put up signs that say no t shirts, but you will not be charged with a crime if you enter wearing a t shirt because they are legal. You can be charged with trespassing if they say "hey, no t shirts, leave now!" And you dont.

You're obfuscating the point a bit with the T shirt bit. If I as a business owner I find that you are violating the rules I have set forth then I absolutely can and will ask you to leave. If that violation is severe enough that request to leave will come out of the mouth of a police officer.

Should you decide to return anyway then you will be arrested. It's called Criminal Trespass and it's against the law. Your right to [insert verb here] does not supercede my rights on my private (and it is) property.

 

[ernurse]

my night shift usually consists of 1 Army reserve SSgt in medical, one ex air force medical, one ex army medical, two navy corpsman both ex, and 3 former marines, one scout sniper and us two grunts, almost all of us have combat experience. we also have a female nurse or two but its usually the all male veteran show. and we all shoot and EDC

 

[nammac]

Well, a couple years ago one of the providence professionals sexually mollested a female worker in the parking garage stairwell. Since there are no cameras there, no proof could be given. The victim was advised to avoid the stairwells and the perp still goes about his day gainfully employed at prov.org. I don't think they are all that serious about crime.

All I can say is that's not a surprise, a Catholic organization turning a blind eye to sexual abuse....

 

[slimmer13]

You're obfuscating the point a bit with the T shirt bit. If I as a business owner I find that you are violating the rules I have set forth then I absolutely can and will ask you to leave. If that violation is severe enough that request to leave will come out of the mouth of a police officer.

Should you decide to return anyway then you will be arrested. It's called Criminal Trespass and it's against the law. Your right to [insert verb here] does not supercede my rights on my private (and it is) property.

I think that's exactly what I said, just in a different way. The bottom line is it not illegal to ignore your rules as long as you are not breaking the law. It is also within your rights to ask me to leave for ignoring those rules. It is not within my rights to ignore you telling me to leave.

 

[Koda]

I get where you're coming with the private property qualification - I feel strongly about property rights, for myself and for businesses. But I can't give up my personal rights just because of private property rights.

I feel the same way, my take on this is if the place of buisness is open to the public then Im under no obligation to oblidge a sign that holds no weight of the law. Private property not open to the public is another thing, if im invited ill either leave it at home or ask permission whenever possible.

 

[Member 5605]

Thanks @etrain16, we both are on the same page.

While I will always quote what we can legally and NOT legally do.... What I opt to do can be entirely different from what is 'requested' by said companies. As I prepare to head out in a couple of minutes I will don on my leather and steel while nobody is the wiser.

 

[Member 5605]

You're obfuscating the point a bit with the T shirt bit. If I as a business owner I find that you are violating the rules I have set forth then I absolutely can and will ask you to leave. If that violation is severe enough that request to leave will come out of the mouth of a police officer.

Should you decide to return anyway then you will be arrested. It's called Criminal Trespass and it's against the law. Your right to [insert verb here] does not supercede my rights on my private (and it is) property.

Same with harassment. You have been asked. Do it again or continue and the law sides with the one who told you to stop.

Sadly I had to do this to one of boys mom. Just couldn't shut her trap with the abusing text messages.

We lived in an apartment complex where they said before you signed papers on the rental agreement: "Your right to peace and quiet supersceedes somebody's right to make noise. Their right to quiet supersceedes your right to make noise." That was a very quiet and peaceful complex. About 350 units and people were on waiting lists to get in.

 

[308]

All I can say is that's not a surprise, a Catholic organization turning a blind eye to sexual abuse....

They do have an openly gay priest who does his rounds and schedules prayer time with patients...something he told my wife he really hates to do.

 

[PiratePast40]

Private property owners have the right to limit certain behavior on their property. That is unless it's a Brokeback Mountain thing. Then business owners have no choice other than to provide any product or service they want, or to let them engage in any activity they want. Because - discrimination!

 

[nammac]

Private property owners have the right to limit certain behavior on their property. That is unless it's a Brokeback Mountain thing. Then business owners have no choice other than to provide any product or service they want, or to let them engage in any activity they want. Because - discrimination!

So basically do a Brokeback Mountain thing with a concealed weapon and I'm good to go, pretty much untouchable... Because of discrimination...

What have we devolved to?????

 

[etrain16]

So basically do a Brokeback Mountain thing with a concealed weapon and I'm good to go, pretty much untouchable... Because of discrimination...

What have we devolved to?????

If someone questions you, simply state that you are a transgender Muslim Native American - they'll probably back off and apologize for disturbing you. Really just claim to be a part of any of the currently protected classes that have the ear of the media at the moment and you're safe.

Oh, and be sure to walk into the women's restroom and ask where the urinals are