Process/Delay for selling a FA?

[Keane]

Hi all--
I've got a fun range toy (FN-FNC sear gun with 3 round burst) that I haven't shot in a while, so I was wondering if anyone knew the process for selling one? I ended up buying it from a kitchen-table dealer that had it in stock about 10 years ago (who doesn't seem to have his FFL anymore).

SO, what is the process besides finding an FFL in the area that might be interested? I also see that the value (according to http://machinegunpriceguide.com/html/machine_guns.html ) is a decent chunk of change, so has anyone had luck selling a FA private party?

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[40Garand]

Maybe see what a dealer is willing to pay for it and then you could potentially avoid "the process". Not sure there's a huge amount of FN FNC people standing around with 18 to 20K burning holes in their pockets right now.

 

[Wombat of Doom]

There are some places that will consign machine guns.

 

[3MTA3]

I did last December and several others here have done so as well.

Start with placing an ad in the NWFA Classifieds section under rifles listing the price you have decided upon

The following is an edited version what I sent out to prospective buyers who inquired, so where it says "you" below it refers to the buyer and "me" or "I" refers to the seller. Not sure if a Form 4 can be processed electronically, but it ti can it would speed up the process.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The transfer is via Form 4. I was actually pretty surprised to find that a SOT is not involved. However, one may have a role (see below). The FBI will do a background investigation on behalf of the BATFE as opposed to the FFL type of transaction. Following that an FFL will process a 4473 just like a regular firearm.

• You download the Form 4 from the BATFE and complete your portion. This includes photograph and fingerprints.
• You pay me the $X by cash or cashier's check and I sign off on the Form 4 and give you a receipt.
• At this time I give you everything that is not the rifle itself.
• You mail the completed Form 4 with a check for the $200 tax stamp.
• After you pass the background check (this will likely be in terms of months) they mail me the approved form with your cancelled tax stamp attached.
• This is the one step that requires an FFL. Even after you had an FBI background check you still need to fill out a 4473 and have a standard NICS background check.
• The rifle now belongs to you. I hand it and the paperwork to you and transaction complete.

Your first question is going to be "I don't know you. If you keep possession and my money how do I know you won't just keep the rifle?". The answer is it's a go to jail and lose my ability to own firearms kind of offense. At a minimum I lose my security clearance and my secure Federal job.

If it makes you feel more secure I can check it into Curt's (or other SOT if you prefer) "for repairs" and they will hold the rifle until the paperwork completes. You would pay any fee they charge for this service (Curt's previously indicated $100) and nothing but my word would prevent me from checking it right back out.

On the other hand if I keep it in my possession I'd be happy to meet you occasionally so you can get in some trigger time while you wait for the stamp. It would continue to be securely stored in my 1/4" plate safe.Totally your choice.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

As it turned out the buyer in my case had a SOT he was comfortable with purchase the rifle so the NFA transaction to them would be quicker and I checked it in for repairs (firing pin showed some damage) and then when the transfer was complete they then sold it to him. He did have to cover both tax stamps. His main concern was over what would happen if something happened while he was waiting for the BATF to do their thing.

I point this out because a SOT still has to follow the same process as anybody else, it's just a bit quicker (took about 45 days) than for a private individual.

 

[Keane]

I did last December and several others here have done so as well.

Start with placing an ad in the NWFA Classifieds section under rifles listing the price you have decided upon

The following is an edited version what I sent out to prospective buyers who inquired, so where it says "you" below it refers to the buyer and "me" or "I" refers to the seller. Not sure if a Form 4 can be processed electronically, but it ti can it would speed up the process.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The transfer is via Form 4. I was actually pretty surprised to find that a SOT is not involved. However, one may have a role (see below). The FBI will do a background investigation on behalf of the BATFE as opposed to the FFL type of transaction. Following that an FFL will process a 4473 just like a regular firearm.

• You download the Form 4 from the BATFE and complete your portion. This includes photograph and fingerprints.
• You pay me the $X by cash or cashier's check and I sign off on the Form 4 and give you a receipt.
• At this time I give you everything that is not the rifle itself.
• You mail the completed Form 4 with a check for the $200 tax stamp.
• After you pass the background check (this will likely be in terms of months) they mail me the approved form with your cancelled tax stamp attached.
• This is the one step that requires an FFL. Even after you had an FBI background check you still need to fill out a 4473 and have a standard NICS background check.
• The rifle now belongs to you. I hand it and the paperwork to you and transaction complete.

Your first question is going to be "I don't know you. If you keep possession and my money how do I know you won't just keep the rifle?". The answer is it's a go to jail and lose my ability to own firearms kind of offense. At a minimum I lose my security clearance and my secure Federal job.

If it makes you feel more secure I can check it into Curt's (or other SOT if you prefer) "for repairs" and they will hold the rifle until the paperwork completes. You would pay any fee they charge for this service (Curt's previously indicated $100) and nothing but my word would prevent me from checking it right back out.

On the other hand if I keep it in my possession I'd be happy to meet you occasionally so you can get in some trigger time while you wait for the stamp. It would continue to be securely stored in my 1/4" plate safe.Totally your choice.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

As it turned out the buyer in my case had a SOT he was comfortable with purchase the rifle so the NFA transaction to them would be quicker and I checked it in for repairs (firing pin showed some damage) and then when the transfer was complete they then sold it to him. He did have to cover both tax stamps. His main concern was over what would happen if something happened while he was waiting for the BATF to do their thing.

I point this out because a SOT still has to follow the same process as anybody else, it's just a bit quicker (took about 45 days) than for a private individual.

This is incredibly helpful, thank you!

 

[CountryGent]

Primary questions were answered, but I'd add:

• eForms now has Form 4 that most are reporting fast times. (I have two paper Form 4s that are, literally, taking longer than any other NFA process I've ever done. One of those is well past a year. The other is a dealer-to-dealer which should have been super fast, but is now into months, plural. No idea if that is typical now, but I'd avoid paper if you can.)
• It is completely anecdotal, but at least one source I trust supports the notion, that this is a good time to be selling transferables. As the theory goes, the people with the funds for such items just watched their stocks, bonds, and crypto get brutalized, plus inflation is going nuts, ergo park some funds in MGs. True? No idea, but it does make some sense.

Good luck with your sale.

 

[3MTA3]

This is incredibly helpful, thank you!

One thing you need to know as well, especially if you have moved since you purchased the rifle, is that the AFT will send the approved form to the address you have registered with that rifle. If they differ make sure you get the address updated before the Form 4 gets mailed to them.

 

[40Garand]

Primary questions were answered, but I'd add:

• eForms now has Form 4 that most are reporting fast times. (I have two paper Form 4s that are, literally, taking longer than any other NFA process I've ever done. One of those is well past a year.

As of this morning the ATF is working on June 2021 paper Form 1's .

 

[Keane]

One thing you need to know as well, especially if you have moved since you purchased the rifle, is that the AFT will send the approved form to the address you have registered with that rifle. If they differ make sure you get the address updated before the Form 4 gets mailed to them.

How does one 'update' this address? Is there an ATF form I have to fill out? I DID move in the meantime...

 

[3MTA3]

How does one 'update' this address? Is there an ATF form I have to fill out? I DID move in the meantime...

LOL ATF always equals paperwork! You want form 5320. Even though it says "temporary" answer No in box 2 and even though it's not coming back you need to fill out the "to" portion in box 3. Use the same date as you used for "to". Mine was returned twice even though I followed their own examples so. from top to bottom:

Box 1: Enter your current name and address then check one of the options for owner type. This would likely be Individual unless you have a Trust.

Box 2: Check No as this is a permanent move

Box 3: Make both dates the same as the "travel" will happen on the same day. It must be a day in the future that would likely happen after the ATF has time to approve, otherwise it may be denied for that reason.

Box 4: Enter the firearm information. I use "machinegun" for they type since that it they give, even though is it normally spelled "machine gun". My experience is that they seem to be looking for technicalities to deny, so use their exact terminology and spellings wherever possible.

Box 5: leave blank

Box 6: Permanent change of address

Box 7: old address

Box 8: new address

Box 9: personal vehicle or however you moved it

Box 10 -12: skip fpr this purpose

Box 13 and 14: Sign and date

They do the rest

 

[antisocialist541]

Primary questions were answered, but I'd add:

• eForms now has Form 4 that most are reporting fast times. (I have two paper Form 4s that are, literally, taking longer than any other NFA process I've ever done. One of those is well past a year. The other is a dealer-to-dealer which should have been super fast, but is now into months, plural. No idea if that is typical now, but I'd avoid paper if you can.)
• It is completely anecdotal, but at least one source I trust supports the notion, that this is a good time to be selling transferables. As the theory goes, the people with the funds for such items just watched their stocks, bonds, and crypto get brutalized, plus inflation is going nuts, ergo park some funds in MGs. True? No idea, but it does make some sense.

Good luck with your sale.

Your second point is absolutely accurate.

 

[Greenbug]

Your second point is absolutely accurate.

Primary questions were answered, but I'd add:

• eForms now has Form 4 that most are reporting fast times. (I have two paper Form 4s that are, literally, taking longer than any other NFA process I've ever done. One of those is well past a year. The other is a dealer-to-dealer which should have been super fast, but is now into months, plural. No idea if that is typical now, but I'd avoid paper if you can.)
• It is completely anecdotal, but at least one source I trust supports the notion, that this is a good time to be selling transferables. As the theory goes, the people with the funds for such items just watched their stocks, bonds, and crypto get brutalized, plus inflation is going nuts, ergo park some funds in MGs. True? No idea, but it does make some sense.

Good luck with your sale.

E forms form 4's can not be used by anyone but a dealer, so a private sale would be on a paper submission.