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Pro 2nd Amend quote

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by dallen1x, Jan 5, 2013.

  1. dallen1x

    dallen1x Wil_Val, OR Active Member

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    State v. Kessler
    The term "arms" is also subject to several interpretations. In
    the colonial and revolutionary war era, weapons used by militiamen
    and weapons used in defense of person and home were one and the
    same.
    Therefore, the term "arms" as used by the drafters of the
    constitutions probably was intended to include those weapons used
    by settlers for both personal and military defense. The term "arms"
    was not limited to firearms, but included several hand-carried
    weapons commonly used for defense. The term "arms" would not have
    included cannon or other heavy ordnance not kept by militiamen or
    private citizens.


    (my opinion: If the drafters probably intended “arms” to include those weapons used for both personal and military defense, than should that also not apply to modern weapons used for military defense, excluding those not normally kept by militiamen or private citizens such as cannons or machine guns? If it was a musket at that point in time then the equivalent now would be the AR-15.)
     
  2. JackThompson

    JackThompson Valley of the Demons Well-Known Member

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    The equivalent would now be an M4 or M16.
     
    revmedia, Mrand55, Galant and 3 others like this.
  3. fd15k

    fd15k Tigard,OR Well-Known Member

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    United States v. Miller - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Machine guns, cannons, rocket launchers are not really in common use at this time. Which is kind of circular, since it's the government who made it difficult to obtain machine guns in 1934 and 1986, making them fall out of common use.
     
  4. dallen1x

    dallen1x Wil_Val, OR Active Member

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    But......take out the three round burst (quasi automatic) and the full auto (both illegal) and the closest counterpart is the AR15.
     
  5. notchman

    notchman Kitsap Peninsula, WA Member

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    It's only illegal in those states that have made it illegal to own (WA state being among them). In states where it is not prohibited you just need to submit the paperwork and the $200 tax, wait the time it takes to 'process', then complete the purchase. I won't go in to what I think about the NFA and how it infringed on our rights WRT the 2nd Amendment except to say that it was heinous.
     
  6. jake2far

    jake2far Portland Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Please take offense at my comments, and I mean this. People who own guns and believe in the 2nd Amend, and don't have a clue what is meant should read history. I don't care what you feel it should mean.
    If you can get past being angry at me, cause people who don't understand their "Rights" and want everyone to be bound by thier beliefs make me angry, try this:
    What Scalia actually said, or, Cannons For EVERYONE! (*Video*) - An NC Gun Blog

    For those who profess to be an "Attorney" and want to "learn me" go get stuffed, and try Scalia, he must not know law. The Constitution is not outdated, it is easy to read and understand, and what gets "experts" upset is, it was wriiten in plain english.
    Oh ya, if the Constitution is out of date, useless, transcribed by "slave owners, and has not kept up with the times, please tell me why every elected offical swears an oath to it, and every service member does the same. If you belive that it is wrong why don't you lobby to have the "oath" stopped?
    The founders knew that citizens needed to be armed to match the military, it is plain language, they knew when the balance of weapon power was offset in favor of the Government enough the Government would enslave the citizens. Hell they lived and fought this very concept, they were smart enough to tell you and provide for you a common defense.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_of_marque
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privateer

    Ownership of heavily armed war ships which included cannons and expolding shells is quite common in our history, oh oh oh, wait, and there was no NFA paperwork or tax stamp on each cannon and shell.


    Jim
     
  7. fd15k

    fd15k Tigard,OR Well-Known Member

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    I have seen this interview before, and I have watched it again to refresh my memory. The title in your link reads "cannons for everybody", but Scalia says in the interview "Amendment doesn't apply to arms that can not be hand-carried". Moreover, decision in the DC v. Heller was written by Scalia, and reads (and I copy-paste it for the 4th time this week) :

     
  8. jake2far

    jake2far Portland Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Yea and you missed the part about shoulder fired rockets, what was originally intended, as Scalia stated, and ya didn't read the text of the article. Did ya?
    Try reading about privateers, what they were armed with and the fact they were used up thru the 19th century. Like I said if ya don't know try reading, cause it is not what you think.
    Lets see if Scalia was correct I can use and own a LAW, Javelin, and any other man portable weapon.

    Jim
     
  9. fd15k

    fd15k Tigard,OR Well-Known Member

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    And you did miss the part about "dangerous and unusual" :)