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Private sale ffl transfer BS

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by Beefcake, Oct 19, 2015.

  1. Beefcake

    Beefcake Portland Active Member

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    I sold a rifle last week, and we did the whole legal FFL transfer process through Fisherman's Marine in Oregon City. The background stuff was normal, but I was shocked that besides the usual transaction form showing buyer and seller information, they made me fill out a separate form for the local PD. If the gun passed the State Police stolen-gun check during the background check, and if the FFL has the transaction info as required by law, why would the Oregon City Police Department be collecting information on me as a seller?
     
  2. etrain16

    etrain16 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Sounds like an FFL to mark off the list of those to use. I don't care for them there anyway.
     
  3. Beefcake

    Beefcake Portland Active Member

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    I don't have a problem with Fisherman's (heck, I got a great deal on a replacement rifle while I was there, and they actually did a great job mounting a scope on it; I usually don't trust retail clerks to mount my optics, but he offered to do it while the background checks were running, and he did as good of job as I would have done myself). My problem is with local PD's adding their own rules to gun transfers.
     
    blackadder likes this.
  4. etrain16

    etrain16 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I'm curious as to the legality of them collecting that data on a separate form. I'd have a serious concern about that. I've not heard of that happening at an FFL anywhere before. May be worth some further investigation.
     
  5. Just Jim

    Just Jim Well-Known Member

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    Couple of reasons, I guess. Number one they want on record how many guns you sell so they can come after you as a dealer if you buy and sell all the time. Number two it's about taxes, if you are selling off a collection the IRS will be notified as selling a collection is taxable if you can be shown to make a profit from it.

    Couple of ways to avoid the BS, sell out of state to a legal FFL or move to a free state.
     
    Medic! likes this.
  6. Beefcake

    Beefcake Portland Active Member

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    I don't think either of those excuses hold water. Acting as an unlicensed dealer would be an ATF issue, and taxes are an IRS issue; neither is in any way connected to the Oregon City Police Department.
     
  7. Greenbug

    Greenbug Bend Well-Known Member

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    This has been a requirement in Oregon for YEARS!!!

    It is a pawnbroker ticket that the dealer is required to fill out when purchasing a used firearm from a private person. A copy gets sent to the local PD and they keep a copy on file for the dealer records as well. NOTHING NEW HERE!!!!

    P.S. I think your tin foil hat might be too small.....:D;)
     
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  8. Beefcake

    Beefcake Portland Active Member

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    Besides the 4473 that the buyer fills out, there is usually a form that shows both the buyer and seller information and signatures. This is required so that the FFL can log the transaction completely (my understanding is that the FFL has to log the weapon into their ATF log as though they bought it and re-sold it). I too am concerned about the legality and reasoning of the local PD adding their own form to the transaction.
     
  9. Just Jim

    Just Jim Well-Known Member

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    Ya, gooberment never talks to each other:D
     
  10. etrain16

    etrain16 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    The first question I have is who do we ask about that? Is that a state law issue, or an ATF issue? Or someone else? What gives them the authority to add that extra document? Or did they even ask before they did it? Sounds kind of 'fishy' to me ;)
     
  11. Just Jim

    Just Jim Well-Known Member

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    They gather information, that's what they do.
     
  12. Beefcake

    Beefcake Portland Active Member

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    I have done these transfers through other FFL's without this added form. I also worked part-time for an FFL and don't recognize this form. Yes, there has been a form that has the seller information. It is the other form, possibly the "pawn ticket" that you mention, that I am unfamiliar with. That is why I'm questioning it.

    My tin-foil hat is fine. I have been background-checked many times, and there are records of every firearm I own because of my volunteer involvement in law enforcement. I have nothing to hide. I just want to know why the local PD wants this information and if there is a basis for collecting it. Since I didn't "pawn" anything, while possibly correct, your response doesn't completely answer my question. Maybe it's your man-kini that's too tight.
     
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  13. Dyjital

    Dyjital Albany, Ore Flavorite Member Bronze Supporter

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    I considered getting an FFL for special order type and for person to person transfers...

    BUT:

    Then when I leaned that OSP was getting to where they wanted to record the sellers information, in no way would I cross that line.

    OFF had an announcement on that a few months back. It's starting and no the foil hat isn't too tight.

    They are probably wanting it to see who is doing s lot of selling so they can attempt to investigate the people; another reason I would not do that.
     
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  14. tkdguy

    tkdguy Portland, Oregon Silver Supporter Silver Supporter

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    An important point was reported by OFF that beyond sb 941 the state is going beyond the regulations and collecting who the seller is as well. The state is keeping a record of the sellers--where sb 941 was designed to do a BC on buyers.
     
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  15. Just Jim

    Just Jim Well-Known Member

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    Sb941 was to collect information future use.
     
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  16. bakersman345

    bakersman345 Camas wa Well-Known Member

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    If the gun gets delayed or denied 2 weeks later they can tell you to come get your gun. I personally think it's a load of crap.
    - here in WA they take a copy of your ID and phone number for the stores record. I'm already in line for a female (meant fema) for being a member here so whatever move me closer to the gas chamber haha
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2015
  17. Just Jim

    Just Jim Well-Known Member

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    Tell me more about this female camp you are getting yourself sent to, as a bachelor it draws my attention:D

    Edited to add, well on second thought I don't need to know about a female prison. Brother tells me I am so ugly I couldn't get laid in a women's prison with a handful of pardons:D
     
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  18. jbett98

    jbett98 NW Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Hopefully, it's not this female camp.

    upload_2015-10-19_17-21-45.jpeg
     
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  19. bakersman345

    bakersman345 Camas wa Well-Known Member

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    Auto correct. Meant fema camp.
     
  20. PiratePast40

    PiratePast40 Willamette Valley Well-Known Member

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    I bought a gun from a new gun shop a few years ago. he also talked about the pawn form and had taken a few down to the local PD after taking guns in on trade. They didn't have a clue what to do with or about them. It's interesting that Fishermans treats private transfers this way, but we're not hearing about other FFLs do the same. Is this perhaps an Oregon City requirement? Perhaps the legal team for Fishermans decided this was a way to cover their behinds. Is Fishermans thinking that they are in possession of the firearm, even for a short time, and required to process the form? In any case, it's another way to track how many guns an individual deals. Has no effect on crime when it comes to law abiding citizens, and the tracking doesn't happen when criminals trade guns. But if it save just one life ......:rolleyes:
     
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