Quantcast
  1. Sign up now and join over 35,000 northwest gun owners. It's quick, easy, and 100% free!

Private party transactions question

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by munkel, Dec 16, 2015.

  1. munkel

    munkel PDX Active Member

    Messages:
    104
    Likes Received:
    29
    Just sold a gun for the first time since SB941 went into effect, did the transfer at a Fishermans Marine close to my house for convenience. Very smooth transaction and great buyer .......but......when we were all done the guy handed the buyer a copy of a form he had filled out in triplicate, then saked me if I wanted a copy, I said yes. Looked at it when I got home and it shows the full name, address and phone number of me and the buyer. WTF, do all stores do this type of form? It was a carbon copy form with Fishermans logo on top for private party transfers. I have no concerns with this particular buyer but I do not want that type of info going to someone I buy or sell from. Is this normal if I choose to do my transfers legally?

    Please not too much grief on the fact that I did the transfer legally..... I know many here choose not to comply, I don't feel I can take that risk currently for various reasons.

    Thanks!
     
  2. etrain16

    etrain16 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    8,549
    Likes Received:
    19,905
    I've done 2, through an FFL, since SB941, both at Tigard Pawn - there was no form like this, just the 4473 for the buyer. Sounds like Fisherman's is doing something extra that is neither needed, nor, I would think, appreciated. Someone I know did one through another pawn shop, and same thing as Tigard Pawn. If you have to do another, maybe try another location. I don't see any reason for both parties to have that much information about the other - it's enough that the government has it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2015
  3. slimer13

    slimer13 Deer Park Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,872
    Likes Received:
    3,216
    The FFL takes possession of the firearm and for all intents and purposes, owns it. Then they transfer it to the buyer. The buyer and sellers records of each other are up to them, BOS etc.

    The triplicate form must be the FFLs own deal.
     
    Slobray, DuneHopper and munkel like this.
  4. Joe Link

    Joe Link Portland, OR Well-Known Member Staff Member Lifetime Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

    Messages:
    6,272
    Likes Received:
    4,552
    Good to hear you're using @Tim Barnes. Great guy and an old family friend :)
     
  5. etrain16

    etrain16 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    8,549
    Likes Received:
    19,905
    Yep. Tim and his employees have taken good care of me since I started using them for incoming transfers. They just assisted me with an out of state sale of a long gun.
     
  6. munkel

    munkel PDX Active Member

    Messages:
    104
    Likes Received:
    29
    What info does the 4473 normally have on it and who other than the FFL gets a copy? Buyer, seller?
     
    DuneHopper likes this.
  7. etrain16

    etrain16 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    8,549
    Likes Received:
    19,905
    Neither the buyer or the seller get a copy of the 4473. The 4473 is a Federal form, filled out by the buyer only, and they don't get a copy. It records the transfer for government purposes and provides the information for the background check. It holds name, address, SS# if you choose to give it and asks a number of questions about you, such as whether you've ever been convicted of a felony. The FFL retains any copies as far as I understand - it's not meant to be shared with a buyer or seller. I think an FFL would have to definitively answer the question of what they do with their copies. Either way, whatever Fisherman's is doing just doesn't sit right with me. It's probably intended to act as a "Bill of Sale".
     
  8. WAYNO

    WAYNO Oregon City Gold Supporter Gold Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    870
    Likes Received:
    1,110
    In a time where we don't like personal information shared, or stored, why would some places take it upon themselves to do so?

    I don't have much use for Fishermans anyway, but since they charge quite a bit more than some other places for a transfer, and they have no respect for our personal information, it's one of the last places I'd do a transfer.

    On the other hand...No place is perfect.

    Tigard Pawn 4 More, they are inexpensive, and they're efficient. But, requiring a color copy of my drivers license for their files? Why?

    99 Pawn in Oak Grove...Also inexpensive, but depending on who ya get at the counter, it can take a while. I used to have them receive guns for me. They wouldn't notify me when they'd receive my shipments. I'd call and they'd insist they'd not yet received anything. Then when the Post Office does a tracking to find the gun, it's been sitting at the Pawn shop the whole time, in spite of them insisting they've not received it. I've also asked them to save any packing sleeves the gun comes in. They refuse.

    Wild Bills in Molalla, also inexpensive, but they do poorly in communicating. I've had lost guns tracked there also, where they insist they've not received my guns, when the Post Office says they delivered it to them. When Wild Bills is pushed into the corner, they then actually look, and find it's been there all along. Do not expect any internet service from them. They will not answer e-mails. I know, from way too many attempts.

    So, thanks to Salem, we're forced to comply with all this transfer crap. Then we have to decide for ourselves just how much expense we choose to endure, and how much poor customer service we choose to endure. Or don't comply.

    WAYNO.
     
  9. munkel

    munkel PDX Active Member

    Messages:
    104
    Likes Received:
    29
    Thanks all, good info, I'll call around next time and ask what they will be filling out.
     
  10. DuneHopper

    DuneHopper Douglas County. Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,878
    Likes Received:
    3,622
    I wish I could add some input as I have done transfers after August 9th, but SB941 does not apply to me nor others I do transfers with. Obviously I am not stating nor will I if they were with a family member or not because to say so would violate the NWFA rules.

    But these transfers are way too intrusive in my opinion and are not Constitutionally sound.
    I tend to operate transfers on Constitutional sounds bases ! ( Hypothetically speaking of course )
     
    BigDMac, Slobray, evilberger and 9 others like this.
  11. Dyjital

    Dyjital Albany, Ore Flavorite Member Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    4,916
    Likes Received:
    5,868
    Any paperwork that I submit with personal information would NOT go to the buyer/seller.

    I have yet to need to do a transfer since the law supposedly overwrote our liberties.

    Nobody comes to my house, nobody sees my information except those who need to see it. Period.

    I cannot confirm or deny any existence of aliens, Indians, smiles or tyrannosaurs Rex in my backyard.
     
    Slobray, DuneHopper and Caveman Jim like this.
  12. ConcreteJungle

    ConcreteJungle Eugene Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    523
    Likes Received:
    529
    Since i come from a land (CA) that has been doing the PPT (private party transfer) for quite some time i'll fill you in on what i've seen/experienced/common practice.

    When a PPT is completed, the FFL has a form that records the buyers and sellers info. It is not a federal form, it varies from FFL to FFL. Some FFL's have both the seller and buyer fill their form out while others type it up on their computer. 90% of the time they hand both parties copies of it unless you don't want it. i have many of these sitting in my safe from previous guns i've purchased or sold while in CA.
    Don't be alarmed. If anything...this is a safeguard for you. If for some reason the FFL didn't file the 4473 properly then at least you have a record of the transaction in case "something" happens.
     
  13. therealhitman

    therealhitman USA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    124
    Likes Received:
    263
    I think there are a TON of guns for sale on here and elsewhere that are going to sit right where they are because the seller is expecting buyers to conform to the bogus law/registration scheme. I would think a CHL does the job for clear background determination in 99.999% of cases. If I were selling a gun (which of course I am not since I own no firearms since the tragic boating accident) I would sell only to a current CHL holder. Less than 200 FTF transfers a month? The Sheriffs aren't interested in enforcing this irreversible "emergency" law and obviously neither are the vast majority of gun owners following it. Technically the state legislators have made lots of new felons out of law abiding citizens.
     
    x2ndxall, Slobray, jim97701 and 5 others like this.
  14. etrain16

    etrain16 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    8,549
    Likes Received:
    19,905
    Guns are definitely selling, you can see the turnover and 'sold' notes here and on AL. But what do you expect people to put in their ads? "For sale, only to people that won't follow the law"? Simply posting that would get you likely get your ad pulled and maybe even get you kicked off this site for violating the house rules:
    • Members must comply with local, state, and federal laws at all times.
      It is up to individual members to comply with all laws at all times. Please remember, it is never legal to sell firearms across state lines without the involvement of an FFL.
    It may also invite a call from your friendly neighborhood LE's trying to find at least one example to make for the political elites to parade around. If I were planning to "not comply", it certainly wouldn't be listed in an ad.

    I agree, I have always trusted a CHL for past gun sales, considering it's something most criminals could not or would not get.

    But as for the guns just sitting there, I don't see that happening at all. Lots of guns being sold, I suspect mostly to family members ;)
     
  15. PaulB47

    PaulB47 Hillsboro Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,867
    Likes Received:
    2,620
    I don't worry about the paperwork. The only time it is useful to the rulers is when they start a confiscation, and since I will be going to war at that point any records will be pretty irrelevant. There are a lot of gun owners out there, safety in numbers...

    The more guns in public hands, the better. Keep buying and selling. Don't worry, paperwork tends to go stale and become full of errors, particularly when government is running it. We are talking about objects that can exist for hundreds of years. They are never going to have accurate records of anything but a small minority of guns. Owning an unregistered gun is just one more bullbubblegum "mala prohibita", of which there are thousands.
     
    Dyjital likes this.
  16. munkel

    munkel PDX Active Member

    Messages:
    104
    Likes Received:
    29
    This is starting to get off track from my initial question in my opinion, the only paperwork I am concerned about in this particular case is the paperwork that went to the buyer and seller that gave both of them ODL#, home address, full name and phone number.

    If I buy/sell to someone on here or AL I do not want them to know my home address. Just because they pass a background check does not mean they won't come break into my house later on looking for more guns.
     
  17. ZA_Survivalist

    ZA_Survivalist Oregon AK's all day.

    Messages:
    4,654
    Likes Received:
    5,771
    Go to tigard pawn.

    They dont do that extra bullbubblegum.
    Any store that adds extra info like that needs to be put on a list and avoided with extreme prejudice.

    Tigard pawn checked my ID, then ran. Background check on the buyer. That was it.

    No extra garbage and only 20-25. No trumped up fees like at other places.
    If you MUST follow BS (bullbubblegum)941 go support them instead of the money grubbing NSA data collecting FFLs.
     
    etrain16 and munkel like this.
  18. therealhitman

    therealhitman USA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    124
    Likes Received:
    263
    I'm not criticizing those sellers or the composition of their posts in the least. Nor suggesting breaking board or state rules. Thrown under the bus was I. Sooooo... etrain took my comment from an unintended angle or else my verbage was poor. Just wondering out loud about any detrimental effect 941 is actually inflicting on honest gun owners. Guys who see any sort of negative market pressures as they try to sell that old safe queen so that they can get Tiny Tim those new crutches he needs as a Christmas gift (in this still pi** poor economy). States limiting our freedom to sell perfectly legal possessions is meant to put the hurt on gun owners from any angle possible. It's obviously not meant to deter crime! I was just making logical (to me) assumptions based on the numbers reported for transfers. I don't really stalk the ad threads to know if stuff is moving so thanks for the fact check.
    Sorry my meager grasp on English as a first language was so easily misconstrued in my earlier post etrain.
     
    Dyjital likes this.
  19. etrain16

    etrain16 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    8,549
    Likes Received:
    19,905
    I think you misunderstood the purpose of my post, not your fault, just the way I put it probably could have been better. I was not taking a swipe at you, at least that wasn't my intent, really just pointing out how ridiculous the whole thing is. I do disagree that guns will sit, unsold. They are obviously selling in far greater numbers than the total number of BGC's would indicate. You can see the rotating listings on just those 2 sites alone. Obviously a lot of folks choosing to 'not comply'.

    But with that, it is a sketchy thing to try and get the word out to others that may be similarly minded, to wit, you can't really advertise those intentions, It just complicates a process that's been working very well for many years. I can say if I ever chose not to comply, it wouldn't be with someone I didn't already know in some way, so how would people go about finding such like minded buyers in the first place?

    No rebuke of your post was intended, I'm sorry if it came across that way. I fully agree it's all a bunch of B.S.
     
    therealhitman likes this.
  20. DuneHopper

    DuneHopper Douglas County. Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,878
    Likes Received:
    3,622
    I can tell you they are indeed being sold and bought and BGCS do not apply I think even more, in because of the law being shoved down people throats. The OP paper work has me troubled that stores are taking liberal use of out information or thats what I was getting out of it.
     
    WAYNO and etrain16 like this.