Printing, is it really a big deal?

[OldTengu]

I wear a jacket and/or button down 100% of the time I have a shirt on. I ain't skeered of printing. Mostly carry a g19 of late.
Also, solid colors show prints worse than printed or plaid shirts.

 

[Mark]

I wear a jacket and/or button down 100% of the time I have a shirt on. I ain't skeered of printing. Mostly carry a g19 of late.
Also, solid colors show prints worse than printed or plaid shirts.

I kinda forgot button-down shirts were a thing lol. This may be the play.

 

[Kruel J]

My cell phone prints. My wallet prints. My chew can prints. I carry IWB at 8 o'clock (lefty). I know I've accidentally printed many times, nobody has said a word to me. I don't walk around all day thinking about it or worrying that someone might notice. That's not to say I don't use due diligence and responsibly choose my clothing/holster/position though.

 

[Mark]

I think OWB with t-shirt and a button-down is gonna be it for me. Best of both worlds it seems. Not too hot and can even wear just an undershirt if extreme heat and still conceal under both decently.

 

[solv3nt]

As it's been pointed out, the majority of people are sheep, and they're not paying attention. The wolves are looking for the sheep. Don't worry about the sheep dogs.

 

[bradsteen]

So I picked this response out to counter because it's the best case of over-thinking the issue I've seen around here lately.

A. Give us an example of something that regularly happens locally where one would require this "tactical advantage." Aggressive panhandler down near PIke Place?
B. If one's in a situation where this could happen, one is most definitely in a situation in which one should not be... 2:30 am in a nightclub parking lot? House party with a lot of gang-bangers present? Tacoma Mall on Black Friday?
C. So how often does this happen? I'm not aware of it happening to the point where it'd be a concern -- kindly document recent cases of this happening around Puget Sound.
D. Refer to C. One reported case in the state of Washington in the past 15 years that was reported.
E. We're in Washington. OP is in Oregon. Let's stick to our states laws.

As this member states, people are oblivious. 99% of people who'd notice a bulge wouldn't automatically presume it's a firearm. Of those who could actually identify the bulge or exposed portion as an actual firearm, 99% of the people in the Northwest would presume one is either law enforcement or a lawful concealed carrier, as most up here are aware that we are shall-issue states.

It's simply a non-issue to most. Carry what's comfortable. I carry a full-size pistol OWB almost exclusively. And it's not like the weather up here demands that we go around scantily clad to the point where we can't conceal a Desert Eagle if we want...

You can call it overthinking if you want. Like i said in the post, this is my opinion, and your mileage may vary. Do what you think is right.

A. Any circumstance in which a person might need to use lethal force is one in which they will want every card in the deck they can stack in their favor. The element of surprise is one of those cards.

B. Using situational awareness will help people avoid the overwhelming majority of these circumstances, but that's not always an option. For example, if you get into a car accident and the other guy is losing his cool, your ability to avoid and/or create distance would be impaired. We don't carry guns to deal with routine situations - we carry guns so that should the routine be interrupted by a potential threat we can address it. In my opinion, overlooking the potential for someone to see that you have a weapon and reacting negatively to it (thereby escalating a situation you are actively trying to de-escalate) is not a smart move.

C. Location is irrelevant - if it can happen, it can happen anywhere. That's like saying express kidnappings (holding someone at gunpoint and taking them from one ATM to another until their account is drained) mostly happen in 3rd world countries, so we don't need to worry about it here. They do still happen here, just less frequently. You can find several examples of persons having their gun taken from their holster on concealedcarry.com - they discuss cases of justified gun usage and other 2A news regularly on their podcast. IIRC it was in their first 10 episodes that one was mentioned.

D. Refer to C. Same source, same logic. Just because it doesn't happen often doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.

E. I am unfamiliar with OR gun laws in sufficient detail to speak on the topic. That's why I stated "know your state's laws", and have not commented on his specific questions about legalities such as r.e. brandishing. The example was given to provide context on how laws vary from one state to another.

Also, most non-gun owners I have met are largely unaware of most gun-related laws, so I would not rely on the general public being aware that we're a shall-issue state.

 

[Xaevian]

This is like the advanced argument class of the OC vs CC argument. You just don't CC hard enough!

Really, @Kruel J is pretty spot on. People will notice a CCer fondling their grip way before they would even notice the print or put 2 and 2 together even if they did. Set it and forget it.

 

[BulletsNButts]

This is like the advanced argument class of the OC vs CC argument. You just don't CC hard enough!

Really, @Kruel J is pretty spot on. People will notice a CCer fondling their grip way before they would even notice the print or put 2 and 2 together even if they did. Set it and forget it.

Sorry, the "you just don't CC hard enough," cracked me up. I'm gonna use this with my friend if you don't mind me "stealing" it.

 

[bradsteen]

This is like the advanced argument class of the OC vs CC argument. You just don't CC hard enough!

Really, @Kruel J is pretty spot on. People will notice a CCer fondling their grip way before they would even notice the print or put 2 and 2 together even if they did. Set it and forget it.

100% agreed, don't adjust in public. That's a bigger issue than printing IMO.

 

[Old Dog]

Someone lives in King County, eh?

He's still over-thinking it. By his "logic," some would be better off not having a firearm on their person at all.

A. Any circumstance in which a person might need to use lethal force is one in which they will want every card in the deck they can stack in their favor. The element of surprise is one of those cards.

"The element of surprise." Sorry, but that doesn't play into the RCWs and the lawful application of deadly force.

 

[BulletsNButts]

Someone lives in King County, eh?

He's still over-thinking it. By his "logic," some would be better off not having a firearm on their person at all.


"The element of surprise." Sorry, but that doesn't play into the RCWs and the lawful application of deadly force.

Your honor I was using the surprise defense. I threw confetti said happy birthday, then shot him!

 

[bradsteen]

Someone lives in King County, eh?

He's still over-thinking it. By his "logic," some would be better off not having a firearm on their person at all.


"The element of surprise." Sorry, but that doesn't play into the RCWs and the lawful application of deadly force.

The element of surprise in this context refers to surprising a threat with the fact that you have a weapon by producing it in order to defend yourself, not ambushing somebody and shooting them.

 

[Mark]

Someone lives in King County, eh?

He's still over-thinking it. By his "logic," some would be better off not having a firearm on their person at all.


"The element of surprise." Sorry, but that doesn't play into the RCWs and the lawful application of deadly force.

Yeahhh I'm pretty conscious of AOJP and far as I can tell there aren't many realistic situations that'll be a legal shoot case that being able to 'surprise' them with a gun is gonna matter. Plus to me the vast majority of situations you'd ever even consider pulling a gun on could be just avoided if you are aware of your surroundings.

 

[BulletsNButts]

The element of surprise in this context refers to surprising a threat with the fact that you have a weapon by producing it in order to defend yourself, not ambushing somebody and shooting them.

Wouldn't that just be regular old arming up from concealed? Ambushing someone isnt self defense, at least not in most cases I'd think.

 

[Mark]

I guess if someone's tryna mug you with a knife, you can get the advantage with a gun if they didn't... But that's assuming you're a god at drawing and/or they don't just stab you soon as you go for it... But yeah, I dunno, main reason I care to conceal it is just not draw attention.

I strongly doubt any active shooter or whatever the hell some people 'prep' for are ever gonna be searching the crowd for gun bulges. If they are they're probably a pro and you lose anyway =|

 

[Mark]

I wear a jacket and/or button down 100% of the time I have a shirt on. I ain't skeered of printing. Mostly carry a g19 of late.
Also, solid colors show prints worse than printed or plaid shirts.

Any recommendations on button-downs? Haven't really shopped for them in ages.

 

[solv3nt]

Any recommendations on button-downs? Haven't really shopped for them in ages.

Denim

 

[Mark]

Bro I'm asian, can't pull a cowboy look.

 

[bradsteen]

Wouldn't that just be regular old arming up from concealed? Ambushing someone isnt self defense, at least not in most cases I'd think.

Yes, producing a weapon when the threat does not expect it is what I was referring to. Ambushing is not lawful use of force, which is what I believe OldDog was referring to. And yes, I know, the circumstances in which someone might consider drawing under these circumstances will be limited - if they have the drop on you, drawing may not be the best move. Carrying a wallet that is empty except for a couple bucks and some empty gift cards is something I've done on occasion so that if I'm mugged I can just give that up.

However, there are numerous cases in which producing a weapon and surprising the assailant has stopped the altercation or enabled the CCWer to gain the advantage. One example in particular I recall in which an off-duty cop was approached while pumping gas by three armed assailants. He was able to blade his body away from them and conceal the draw entirely from behind the pump. When they pointed the weapon at him, he moved and shot, and the bad guys scattered.

Sure, it's an extreme scenario, but defensive gun usage in general is an extreme scenario. In all likelyhood you'll never have to draw the gun in the first place, but if I have to draw it, I would prefer the assailant not know that it exists. It gives me more options than the alternative.

 

[solv3nt]

Bro I'm asian, can't pull a cowboy look.

I'm adopted from Korea, but I still rock Lucchese's.