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Primers being pushed out.

Discussion in 'Ammunition & Reloading' started by Phillyfan, Apr 8, 2013.

  1. Phillyfan

    Phillyfan Oregon City, Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Hey guys. I have a friend who is just starting reloading and he is having a problem I thought you might have the answer to. He found a load that he really likes in .270 win. Groups beautifully, but he noticed that a couple of the rounds started to come out with the primers pushed out, one to the point that it fell out in the receiver. Obviously, not good.

    Any ideas? Is the load just too hot?

    He is having the same problem with some .41 magnum rounds in his n-frame. They push out to the point that the cyclinder doesn't want to turn. He read something that said not to use Blue Dot powder in .41 mags, but that doesn't seem right.
     
  2. Phillyfan

    Phillyfan Oregon City, Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Should've mentioned the .270 is a bolt action.
     
  3. Jamie6.5

    Jamie6.5 Western OR Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like the brass may be just worn out, or maybe he is being too aggressive cleaning primer pockets.
    Or, it could be that his loads are over pressure.
    How many loads per casing?
    Some loads are harder on cases, and shorten their life.
    I know my favorite 150gr .270 loads over the years have resulted in relatively short case life, with about 5 loads being the max, then the primers get loose.

    Of the primers that are staying in, is he getting any flattening or cratering, or both?
    Does he have the tools to mic the case heads, checking for case expansion?
    Has he had the headspace checked on the rifle?

    I guess I would need more info before I decide conclusively what I think the issue is.
     
  4. Phillyfan

    Phillyfan Oregon City, Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I'll ask, thanks for the response.
     
  5. Throckmorton

    Throckmorton Florence,Ore ah gone Well-Known Member

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    actually ,under pressure loads can cause this too,espcially in revolvers.
    as the round is fired..here comes Newton's law..the bullet is pushed out the front AND the primer is pushed out the back.Hitting the bolt face on the rifle,or the recoil shield of the revolver re-seats the fired primer.

    I had my cowboy guns giving me fits with light loads until someone 'splained it to me.
     
  6. civilian75

    civilian75 Hillsboro, OR Well-Known Member

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    Could be any of the above mentioned except for over-pressure. With over pressure you get one or more of the following: flat primers, primer cratering, extruded extractors, bulging case heads, hard extractions, case cracks, (what did I miss?).

    When I started reloading for 300 AAC BKL, I ran an experiment with a hot load. Reloaded five LC cases over and over until failure. I stopped after 11 reloads; primer pockets had grown too large.

    Had it been surplus brass, I'd include incorrect pocket swagging. But it does not apply to 270Win and 41Mag cal.
     
  7. misplacedtexan

    misplacedtexan Beaverton, OR Active Member

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    I'm going with he's aggressively cleaning primer pockets and making them loose OR

    He's loading on the light side. Like was mentioned, the primer gets pushed out initially, and then pushed back in under the recoil.


    Probably on the light side
     
  8. Otter

    Otter Oregon - mid Willamette Valley Active Member

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    Sounds like loose primer pockets and a light load, but really hard to say without more info.

    If you can provide it, what is the load he is shooting....powder type and # of grains, bullet and weight, and type of brass. I'm really curious how much resistance he feels when he primes the cases, and what tool he uses to prime with.

    I aggressively clean my primer pockets with a K&M uniforming tool and an RCBS wire primer pocket cleaning tool. I've never had lose primer pockets and have never experienced a primer falling out.
     
  9. bellarum

    bellarum beaverton Well-Known Member

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    ^^^also OAL.
     
  10. jib

    jib Central OR Active Member

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    What brand of brass is he using ?
     
  11. deadshot2

    deadshot2 NW Quadrant WA State Well-Known Member

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    Light loads only push the primer out a small amount, usually equal to the headspace difference between cartridge and chamber.

    If the primers are falling out when ejected then it's a matter of a worn out primer pocket. Some brass just does this after a very few firings and other brands won't until some other part of the case fails.

    Since this is a Bolt action using a shouldered case, the person needs to pay attention to the amount of shoulder bump/push back when sizing. The IDEAL amount would be NO MORE than necessary to close the bolt but due to variations in brass the standard is around .002" from what the fired case measures.
     
  12. Shooter98

    Shooter98 McMinnville, Or. Member

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    This sounds more like a head spacing problem to me with the amount of failures you're talking about. Have your buddy check the head space. If it's a factory built gun it's less likely, but if it's had a barrel or bolt face replaced it could easily be the problem.
     
  13. 2ndtimer

    2ndtimer SE Washington state Active Member

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    A little more information would be helpful, especially the load data, firearm models, and how many rounds they have seen. The primers falling out may be from the oversized primer pockets, or could be blown out by an over pressure load.
     
  14. misplacedtexan

    misplacedtexan Beaverton, OR Active Member

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    oversized pockets yes, but if it's over-pressure the primers would be cratered, ruptured, flattened primers, bulged, cracked, stuck (hard to extract) cases.

    The initial blast pushes the primer out a hair, then the whole case is pushed against the breach face and the primer is reset.
     
  15. 2ndtimer

    2ndtimer SE Washington state Active Member

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    MPTX-
    Trust me, an over-pressure load can push out the primer and leave it loose in the action (along with the extractor). Don't ask me how I know...:bawling:
     
  16. deadshot2

    deadshot2 NW Quadrant WA State Well-Known Member

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    You're both right. Bolt action versus semi-auto.