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I'm getting to know what that feels like -- something different than the bolt scrinching into threads -- like it slowly becomes pasta, then twists easily and the head pops off. It's sorta fun.
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Primer Recharging Project
- Thread Starter awshoot
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I'm getting to know what that feels like -- something different than the bolt scrinching into threads -- like it slowly becomes pasta, then twists easily and the head pops off. It's sorta fun.
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- #83
If I went to a half inch bolt, and I think I read a chart that says fine thread would do 90 pounds (my wrench tops at 80), would I run the risk of stripping out the threads in shaft before I get to 80 pounds?
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That settles it -- tomorrow I get a bolt and a tap.
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When I started in the parts business an old timer replied to a guy asking how tight something should be with "tighten it 1/4 of a turn before it breaks and then go a 1/2 turn past that!!"
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I have my tools set up enough so that I can make some test primers. With a grade 8 3/8" bolt, I'm able to go to 70 ft pounds with my torque wrench saving me from more drilling and tapping. I didn't test beyond that because I'm trying to be lazy and avoid the redrilling and retapping part! ;-)
I've ended up making two pins from 4mm hardened steel pins using my cordless drill, a file, and sandpaper up to 2000 grit. This is what the one for compressing the priming compound looks like -- the one for pressing out the firing pin dimple is a little more rounded on the edge to avoid cutting into the cup metal.
When testing how the arbor press worked at taking out the firing pin dimple, I placed a primerupside down open end up on the plate, held a pin in position, and operated the press. Here you can see the result on an annealed primer -- lots of disturbing cuts caused by the rough surface of that steel plate:
I decided it was easier to polish one face of the arbor press ram than the plate of the press, then instead of placing a primer cup upside down on the plate, I place the butt of the pin on the plate, put the cup on top of the pin, and press with the polished face of the ram. Here's my ram work -- not a before an after but it is an unpolished end vs. a polished end:
The tool I'll use on the base plate just holds the pin perpendicular to the base plate. I think it is probably easier anyway to put the primer upside down on the pin and then hit it with the 1" square ram, rather than attach a pin to the ram and try to find the primer cup.
I did some maintenance on my printer but it still isn't printing all that nice -- I've had it probably five years and I think every bearing needs replacement, which means it's probably time to just get a new machine. Anyway, this is in ABS and the pin is press fit into the slightly undersized hole. This will sit on the press plate with the cup upside down on the pin, then the ram will squeeze the cup between the pin and polished ram end.
When it comes time to compress the primer compound, I can't flip the cup upside down, so I made a piece to attach a pin to the ram. I'll place the primer cup on an aluminum tray -- probably the part I cut earlier for the method I've abandoned -- to protect the cup from the harsh surface of the steel press plate. You can see how the first 5 mm printed extra embarrassingly ugly and then sort of smoothed out -- I think my machine is worn out -- but despite the ugly, it functions correctly. There are set screws with captured nuts on the sides to hold it in place on the ram:
And last, here is an inside picture of the cup pictured above -- note the dimple from the anvil. I'm concerned that there's a substantially weakened point between the firing pin and the anvil, but I don't have good thoughts on how to fix that. I'd appreciate any suggestions on fixing this.
I've ended up making two pins from 4mm hardened steel pins using my cordless drill, a file, and sandpaper up to 2000 grit. This is what the one for compressing the priming compound looks like -- the one for pressing out the firing pin dimple is a little more rounded on the edge to avoid cutting into the cup metal.
When testing how the arbor press worked at taking out the firing pin dimple, I placed a primer
I decided it was easier to polish one face of the arbor press ram than the plate of the press, then instead of placing a primer cup upside down on the plate, I place the butt of the pin on the plate, put the cup on top of the pin, and press with the polished face of the ram. Here's my ram work -- not a before an after but it is an unpolished end vs. a polished end:
The tool I'll use on the base plate just holds the pin perpendicular to the base plate. I think it is probably easier anyway to put the primer upside down on the pin and then hit it with the 1" square ram, rather than attach a pin to the ram and try to find the primer cup.
I did some maintenance on my printer but it still isn't printing all that nice -- I've had it probably five years and I think every bearing needs replacement, which means it's probably time to just get a new machine. Anyway, this is in ABS and the pin is press fit into the slightly undersized hole. This will sit on the press plate with the cup upside down on the pin, then the ram will squeeze the cup between the pin and polished ram end.
When it comes time to compress the primer compound, I can't flip the cup upside down, so I made a piece to attach a pin to the ram. I'll place the primer cup on an aluminum tray -- probably the part I cut earlier for the method I've abandoned -- to protect the cup from the harsh surface of the steel press plate. You can see how the first 5 mm printed extra embarrassingly ugly and then sort of smoothed out -- I think my machine is worn out -- but despite the ugly, it functions correctly. There are set screws with captured nuts on the sides to hold it in place on the ram:
And last, here is an inside picture of the cup pictured above -- note the dimple from the anvil. I'm concerned that there's a substantially weakened point between the firing pin and the anvil, but I don't have good thoughts on how to fix that. I'd appreciate any suggestions on fixing this.
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For my testing, I plan to make series of 10, of some load -- haven't decided what I want to do with that yet -- pick one I know is good but might blow through the weakened primer or pick one that is weak but I don't know how it shoots. Hard choice.
Anyway, I'll do CCI 550, Fed GM100M, Fed 100, Annealed Reprimed Fed GM100M, NonAnnealed Reprimed Fed GM100M. I'll chrono each and compare targets. In a way, I'm a bit more interested in how the CCI magnums compare with the Federal standard primers because that would up my primer stock by about 650+.
As for the gun, perhaps it's time to get an ultrasonic cleaner and an air compressor to get all the water out? I'm concerned about the corrosive nature of these primers.
Anyway, I'll do CCI 550, Fed GM100M, Fed 100, Annealed Reprimed Fed GM100M, NonAnnealed Reprimed Fed GM100M. I'll chrono each and compare targets. In a way, I'm a bit more interested in how the CCI magnums compare with the Federal standard primers because that would up my primer stock by about 650+.
As for the gun, perhaps it's time to get an ultrasonic cleaner and an air compressor to get all the water out? I'm concerned about the corrosive nature of these primers.
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This guy had success with caps:
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Anvil is just a thin flat stock punch cut, then formed. I would try pushing it into the cup and seeing if that is all that is needed to form it. For testing you could have them laser cut at first, then have a tool shop machine a cutting die to press cut them quickly and far lower cost.
OR
Contact the international guys that make primers and ask to buy JUST the cups and anvils, not assembled and no chem. This way importation is small metal parts NOT primers or ammo. Would want to confirm importing the metal parts are not a problem but they probably are not.
buy 10k at a time prob small med international box to via DHL to get them. Mix your primer compound and your in biz.
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If any one wants to try this buy your caps now. I went searching for some yesterday and could not find any around here. Cabels pegs were cleared out but they still haves rolls available online for $3 per 1200 caps. If you double them up like guy in video, you still get 600 primer reloads for $3. Not a bad deal in todays world. Warning you have to have them shipped to store or they charge you $20 haz mat fee. I order two packs just for the heck of it.
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Has anyone here tried Prime-All for priming compound?
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Here's where I'm at. I've made two sets of 8 primers, one set with annealed cups, one set with a not-annealed cups. Here they are:
Inside the annealed cups I put 0.20 grains of priming compound, individually measured on a scale that will read 100ths of a grain (sort of -- at the hundreths level it step in 0.02 gr increments). Over the compound is disc of foil Christmas paper, foil side out (this is apparently the orientation to use if you lacquer the primer, which I considered but then decided not to do yet to keep this test simpler). I compressed the powder with an arbor press to 60 ft pounds, three times slowly for each primer. This resulted in a hard disc of priming compound at the bottom of the primer. It also dimpled the base tray. I tested one on my vice by hitting it with a hammer and it popped. Smelled exactly like the smoke from a cap gun of my youth.
The thing is, I finally opened my package of stuff and read the instructions. A few posts back I decided to redo everything over worries that if I followed my original plan of making a paste, I'd end up with something chemically unknown. I'm still sort of ticked at myself:
Apparently, the binding compound is activated by any of these and rather than being a bad plan, my first plan was a GOOD one! Forking moron -- Read the _____ instructions before launching. So I finish up compressing the hand measured/hand poured primers, put a drop of acetone in each, and set them aside to dry for 24 hours. At the end of the wait, I accidentally dropped the tray of primers (I used the tools below, the primers were on the part with the compression dimples marked "L" -- if you look at it sideways -- and inside the 8-hole grate marked "top". Nothing happened -- the priming compound stayed in place so I decided to go ahead and keep them. That's a good sign despite being a klutz.
Anyway, by the time I get to doing the non-annealed primers, I decide to go back to my old plan. I mix up the rest of the priming compound with a few drops of acetone, make a paste, and squeegee it into the holes in the 8-hole grate that is not written on (the one between "top" and "X") in the picture below. Prior, I had filled the holes in the grate marked "top" with empty cups, then I set the priming-compound grate on top of that and just punched the discs of priming compound down into the cups with a metal rod. They dropped right in. Then on the press, I compressed each to 60 ft pounds, three times slowly, exactly like the hand measured ones. Then I put another drop of acetone because the compound seemed to dry out so quickly. Next time I think I'll use alcohol. Let those dry over night and then put in the paper foil discs and anvils.
For the paper discs I made punch out of a random piece of steel and a nail filed and sanded to the right diameter while held in my power drill. I happened to have a drill bit about the inside diameter of a cup, so I just drilled a hole in the steel, then hit with a belt and disc sander to get a basic edge. It's kind of tedious to use, but I put the paper foil side down, use a pencil rubbing to find the hole, then punch it. These are my tools for that -- the arrow points to the mark a rubbing makes and then I just use the punch:
Here are the parts I used that I made in my original idea, then abandoned, then picked up again:
L: is the plate which holds everything. I put shorter pins on one side to give me more room related to the 1x1" arbor press ram. Cups fit in the part marked TOP. The next unmarked piece is the primer-compound grate. X is a failed primer cup holder but it works great to set on top of the primed/papered cups and use to guide anvils down, then I remove "X" and make any final adjustments to the anvils, place them on the press and use the bare polished ram of the press to push the anvils in place:
Inside the annealed cups I put 0.20 grains of priming compound, individually measured on a scale that will read 100ths of a grain (sort of -- at the hundreths level it step in 0.02 gr increments). Over the compound is disc of foil Christmas paper, foil side out (this is apparently the orientation to use if you lacquer the primer, which I considered but then decided not to do yet to keep this test simpler). I compressed the powder with an arbor press to 60 ft pounds, three times slowly for each primer. This resulted in a hard disc of priming compound at the bottom of the primer. It also dimpled the base tray. I tested one on my vice by hitting it with a hammer and it popped. Smelled exactly like the smoke from a cap gun of my youth.
The thing is, I finally opened my package of stuff and read the instructions. A few posts back I decided to redo everything over worries that if I followed my original plan of making a paste, I'd end up with something chemically unknown. I'm still sort of ticked at myself:
Apparently, the binding compound is activated by any of these and rather than being a bad plan, my first plan was a GOOD one! Forking moron -- Read the _____ instructions before launching. So I finish up compressing the hand measured/hand poured primers, put a drop of acetone in each, and set them aside to dry for 24 hours. At the end of the wait, I accidentally dropped the tray of primers (I used the tools below, the primers were on the part with the compression dimples marked "L" -- if you look at it sideways -- and inside the 8-hole grate marked "top". Nothing happened -- the priming compound stayed in place so I decided to go ahead and keep them. That's a good sign despite being a klutz.
Anyway, by the time I get to doing the non-annealed primers, I decide to go back to my old plan. I mix up the rest of the priming compound with a few drops of acetone, make a paste, and squeegee it into the holes in the 8-hole grate that is not written on (the one between "top" and "X") in the picture below. Prior, I had filled the holes in the grate marked "top" with empty cups, then I set the priming-compound grate on top of that and just punched the discs of priming compound down into the cups with a metal rod. They dropped right in. Then on the press, I compressed each to 60 ft pounds, three times slowly, exactly like the hand measured ones. Then I put another drop of acetone because the compound seemed to dry out so quickly. Next time I think I'll use alcohol. Let those dry over night and then put in the paper foil discs and anvils.
For the paper discs I made punch out of a random piece of steel and a nail filed and sanded to the right diameter while held in my power drill. I happened to have a drill bit about the inside diameter of a cup, so I just drilled a hole in the steel, then hit with a belt and disc sander to get a basic edge. It's kind of tedious to use, but I put the paper foil side down, use a pencil rubbing to find the hole, then punch it. These are my tools for that -- the arrow points to the mark a rubbing makes and then I just use the punch:
Here are the parts I used that I made in my original idea, then abandoned, then picked up again:
L: is the plate which holds everything. I put shorter pins on one side to give me more room related to the 1x1" arbor press ram. Cups fit in the part marked TOP. The next unmarked piece is the primer-compound grate. X is a failed primer cup holder but it works great to set on top of the primed/papered cups and use to guide anvils down, then I remove "X" and make any final adjustments to the anvils, place them on the press and use the bare polished ram of the press to push the anvils in place:
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Accidentally hit "post" instead of upload media. So continuing. Here's the front packaging of the stuff I'm using after taking out the chemical bags:
And this is what you get:
The instructions call for two large scoops of L2, one large scoop of L, and one small scoop of each of the S's -- I marked them 1 and 2. To my eye, S1 is more tan colored, and S2 is more yellow.
This worked out (this time) to:
L2: 2.88 grains
L: 2.02 grains
S1: 0.76 grains
S2: 0.76 grains
For my annealed primers, I added 0.20 grains to each cup. For the non-annealed, where I tried the 8-hole grate squeegee method, I had some leftovers so I filled two more holes. After drying one was 0.18 gr and the other was 0.22 gr -- clearly I need to work on my squeegeeing but I think if I use a slower drying liquid, like 70% isopropyl, it will be easier. With acetone the lump dried out fast.
And this is what you get:
The instructions call for two large scoops of L2, one large scoop of L, and one small scoop of each of the S's -- I marked them 1 and 2. To my eye, S1 is more tan colored, and S2 is more yellow.
This worked out (this time) to:
L2: 2.88 grains
L: 2.02 grains
S1: 0.76 grains
S2: 0.76 grains
For my annealed primers, I added 0.20 grains to each cup. For the non-annealed, where I tried the 8-hole grate squeegee method, I had some leftovers so I filled two more holes. After drying one was 0.18 gr and the other was 0.22 gr -- clearly I need to work on my squeegeeing but I think if I use a slower drying liquid, like 70% isopropyl, it will be easier. With acetone the lump dried out fast.
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this thread is sticky worthy. what do you guys think?
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Most definitely!!!
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I ran into a hitch with the next part of my plan though. I decided I want to use my .38 because I think it will be easier to clean after using these corrosive primers, but over the summer I loaded up every .38 case I have aside from some randos. So before I can make use of these primers, I guess I have to go to the range and make some empty shells.
Work -- it just never ends. ;-)
Work -- it just never ends. ;-)
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PM me an address i will ship you some 38s if need be.
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