Preparing for Lack of Water World

[billdeserthills]

Living in AZ, the thing that pisses me off are all these golf courses--Talk about a waste of water, seems like most of it could be evaporating & blowing elsewhere

 

[Cavedweller]

You can call it "waste", or you can think about all the jobs created by those golf courses that allow people to make an honest living and support their families. From the groundskeepers to the pro shop to the restaurants, the office workers, the equipment makers, the fertilizer manufacturers and distributors. A whole web of economic activity based on golf.

I'm not saying we necessarily have to dump all that water on the desert the way we do, but calling it waste is only seeing a slice of what goes on.

Maybe we should do like the Saudis. I hear golf courses there are all sand except for the putting greens and golfers there carry around a piece of astroturf to play from. Don't know for a fact - never been there.

 

[Kristopher Kam]

You can call it "waste", or you can think about all the jobs created by those golf courses that allow people to make an honest living and support their families. From the groundskeepers to the pro shop to the restaurants, the office workers, the equipment makers, the fertilizer manufacturers and distributors. A whole web of economic activity based on golf.

I'm not saying we necessarily have to dump all that water on the desert the way we do, but calling it waste is only seeing a slice of what goes on.

Maybe we should do like the Saudis. I hear golf courses there are all sand except for the putting greens and golfers there carry around a piece of astroturf to play from. Don't know for a fact - never been there.

There's layers to be sure, but when it's a known issue with drinking water being shut off.. and lawns are illegal with huge fines. It's a bit of a dystopia event to have a thousand acre golf course pounding down a millions gallons of water/day to please the recreational desires of a few hundred golfers. In many ways you could view drinking water as a natural resource that should be a public resource with fair and equitable access for all. Like public access land.. national parks etc.

When the drinking water is cheap but then the city sells the reservoir to a private company and they then increase the price by 500% that's an issue.. same as when a city sets up a savings account and builds a bridge.. then the city sells it to a private company that charges $15/car to cross it.. like all around NYC.. that's another problem.

People just don't like different rules and different access to water. It's one thing if billionaires have their secret golf course on a deserted island.. it's too visible and obvious when it's right there in AZ and eating millions of gallons of water that people need to drink.

Have your wealth but learn how to stay low key

 

[Cavedweller]

There's layers to be sure, but when it's a known issue with drinking water being shut off.. and lawns are illegal with huge fines. It's a bit of a dystopia event to have a thousand acre golf course pounding down a millions gallons of water/day to please the recreational desires of a few hundred golfers

I guess I'm not familiar with the water situation in AZ. If people are being denied drinking water so a few elites can enjoy green fairways, that's a problem. But I haven't heard of anyone dying of thirst in AZ except maybe illegal border crossers.

. In many ways you could view drinking water as a natural resource that should be a public resource with fair and equitable access for all. Like public access land.. national parks etc.

If it's not, that sounds like a problem the state legislature should deal with.

When the drinking water is cheap but then the city sells the reservoir to a private company and they then increase the price by 500% that's an issue.. same as when a city sets up a savings account and builds a bridge.. then the city sells it to a private company that charges $15/car to cross it.. like all around NYC.. that's another problem.

When elected officials do things like this, people should replace them.

 

[billdeserthills]

You can call it "waste", or you can think about all the jobs created by those golf courses that allow people to make an honest living and support their families. From the groundskeepers to the pro shop to the restaurants, the office workers, the equipment makers, the fertilizer manufacturers and distributors. A whole web of economic activity based on golf.

I'm not saying we necessarily have to dump all that water on the desert the way we do, but calling it waste is only seeing a slice of what goes on.

Maybe we should do like the Saudis. I hear golf courses there are all sand except for the putting greens and golfers there carry around a piece of astroturf to play from. Don't know for a fact - never been there.

It's true, all the illegal aliens who work at the golf courses really appreciate the cash-under-the-table jobs

The richest place I know about, Desert Mountain has 6 golf courses, guess those richers get dangerous when they get bored

Desert Mountain Golf Courses | Phoenix / Scottsdale Top Courses | Where2Golf

<p data-block-key="citro">The private Desert Mountain Golf Club in Scottsdale comprises a unique collection of six Jack Nicklaus designed signature course: Ren…

www.where2golf.com

 

[gmerkt]

You know, we would just dump a cup of bleach into the tank every couple weeks when we changed out the filter.

Oh it can be done, there are many methods of treatment possible. I just wouldn't drink it down without using one of them, even boiling if it came to that.

The mosquito thing, there are chemicals / additives for that too. The old timers put a dash of kerosene in to keep them down. Careful screening is required, you know no matter how carefully that's done, mosquitos are apt to find a way in anyhow. You even have to make sure there is no water that ponds in your gutters / collection system. Mosquitos can lay eggs in ponded water that later get flushed into the cistern.

 

[gmerkt]

My long time pal Mark down in New Mexico, his last place was on well water. Which in his view wasn't drinkable, full of nature's chemicals. He had to install a reverse osmosis system inline to make the water useful. Even if you can stand to drink that kind of water, it can ruin various water-using appliances in your home, cake up the plumbing and what-not. So having your own well is better than no water but can get involved. You have to hope the level doesn't get too low. If your pump down at the bottom of the hole goes bad, most people can't fish one of those out by themselves. That reverse osmosis system my pal had, that wasn't cheap and it tended to be maintenance heavy. He had it in an out-building, so it always had to be protected from freezing in the Winter time. Mark built himself a new place where he brought in a water line from the local water district so he's done with wells.

Another pal up in Everson had a well, his pump went out. He had well service guys come out to replace it, then they discovered that he had a bunch of well casing that was rusted out. it got involved. In his house, he had a room that was full of tanks, controls and a pump for distribution of the well water. I've got other well stories but enough is enough.

Reclaimed water. Some cities are doing this. My mom lived out the rest of her days in Long Beach, Calif. They used reclaimed waste water to irrigate the municipal properties, like parks, roadside green belts, etc. Her tap water tasted very bad, and I believe I could detect some odor to it. I told her I thought maybe the city got the allegedly potable water lines and the reclaimed water lines crossed in her neighborhood and she was actually getting the recycled water at her sink. In reality, doubtful but the bad taste was still there.

Her city had reserve water wells scattered around town. One of them was on a site immediately behind her property. I'd been over there before when the water department guys had it open for service. It was all below ground, access by way of a steel door with a single padlock. The pump was in a concrete subterranean room. Speaking of dire emergency SHTF situations, I'd thought that she had a pretty good source of emergency water back there if the need ever came up. So there's a prepping idea for you all, take note of where such facilities are in your area, artesian wells, etc. I've got a year-round creek that runs down a little draw not too far from where I live, I've thought of that as back-up.

 

[Idaho44]

As it has been pointed out, read "Cadillac Desert". Water resources and sources is/are and has/have been very political and not deemed essential for the lower echelons of society. Even in the USA, there are pockets of "third world" water 'use'. Why does a French company own the 'water rights' to water sources in the Boise, Idaho metro area?

 

[ATCclears]

We live North of Seattle, will likely face a County change in thinking such that our property can be rezoned for townhomes, and hence will take the substantial cash then and run...

"To where?" is a TBD. I keep a file of notes/considerations. Water is a big consideration if I assume a 20-year timeline. I like the idea of a more arid climate but I won't consider the US Southwest.

A snippet from my notes:

• Area Study (AI Area of Interest, AO Area of Operations)
  • Terrain
    • MyTopo. https://search.mytopo.com/searchplaces
  • Weather. Average days of precipitation. Average inches of rain, snow. Average sunny days. Average Summer high temperature and Average Winter low temperature. Average UV Index.
    • More extreme heat in next few decades?
  • Drought. https://droughtmonitor.unl.edu/

 

[Idaho44]

Love the drought map. Kind of an oxymoron to move from the East to the Western desert drought regions! Go figure!

 

[Horatius]

I have been looking for a decent piece of property in my home state of Oregon recently Water has always been what has driven value in this state. I have no Idea what drives value now, I have been outbid on anything of value and amazed at what land with marginal existing 300' wells are selling for. there are million-dollar homes on the North Umpqua River that were built, knowing all water would need to be trucked in.

 

[The Heretic]

I had one while living in Ketchikan, Alaska. City water is only available in town proper, everyone else has a cistern. Just make sure you have a really good filter and don't draw water off the bottom.... When I cleaned ours out, I removed buckets and buckets of pine needles, leaves and slugs....

I can see why a cistern would be a must in Ketchikan. I wasn't stationed there, but when working on a DoD project as a civilian, I did work on the island - we had some antennas and transceivers setup for testing on the CG property/buildings about 10 miles north of the city. The ground was very rocky while at the same time very mossy and full of water - in spots it was like walking on jello.

 

[Horatius]

I grew up on wells. for you that don't understand what the gentrification of rural America looks like. picture 8 families living up a canyon on 80-acre properties. the farther up the canyon the steeper the land, everyone has 120' wells but the guy at the head of the canyon is higher in elevation. properties start getting subdivided and more wells get punched but now the new money goes down 300'. the original families can't afford it and get squeezed out. inner city Portland families moved in to make ships during WW2 mine came in covered wagons.

 

[The Heretic]

Living in AZ, the thing that pisses me off are all these golf courses--Talk about a waste of water, seems like most of it could be evaporating & blowing elsewhere

I am sure they water at night.

We used to not water during the day - there was a myth that it burned the plants, but that is hogwash, it is just sometimes a waste of water. However, some plants need the water during the day. Drip irrigation is better if possible

 

[The Heretic]

I grew up on wells. for you that don't understand what the gentrification of rural America looks like. picture 8 families living up a canyon on 80-acre properties. the farther up the canyon the steeper the land, everyone has 120' wells but the guy at the head of the canyon is higher in elevation. properties start getting subdivided and more wells get punched but now the new money goes down 300'. the original families can't afford it and get squeezed out.

You just kind of described where I live, except in the last 50 years or so zoning has kept ag/forestry land from being subdivided outside the urban growth boundary. We can't subdivide our plots once setup. They could not even make these plots until a rule changed in the 90s. We could not sell part of our plot to an adjoining plot until about 5 years ago. So our plots are set in stone more or less.

I am at 900' with maybe 20 plots/families higher up than I am. One farm at the crest of the mountain was sold and is now a pot processing facility using a lot of water, but they cannot put in another well or use more than they already are allotted, so they have to truck water in. Immediate neighbors don't like it, but nothing they can do - it is an ag operation, zoned for that.

I am at 120' static, 200' deep IIRC. Neighbors are at 400'+, don't know why/how, but there it is.

Where I grew up on the farm, we shared a well with the neighbors - lowest spot on the farm. I remember the well pump/etc. working sometimes and not working other times.

inner city Portland families moved in to make ships during WW2 mine came in covered wagons.

My grandfather was in MM in WWI and then built ships in Portland during WWII.

 

[The Heretic]

Deaths from dehydration in Philippines amid water, food shortages

Survivors of Typhoon Rai say they are running out of water and food as two people die of dehydration on Siargao island.

www.aljazeera.com

 

[billdeserthills]

I am sure they water at night.

We used to not water during the day - there was a myth that it burned the plants, but that is hogwash, it is just sometimes a waste of water. However, some plants need the water during the day. Drip irrigation is better if possible

I spoke with the golf course sanitation specialist years ago, he assured me that using more than 5-6% greywater would cause the courses to smell real bad & be bad for business in general. These 6 golf courses are not the only courses in the area-- there are many more, all using CAP water & the grass stays green year round, far as I can tell

 

[JohnnyMac]

in spots it was like walking on jello.

Good ol muskeg. It was hell for hunting on. Like walking in quicksand all day. Ketchikan also gets somewhere in the neighborhood of 150" of rain a year so you never need to buy water.

 

[belshawelk]

Why All my properties have wells, springs, wetlands or year round creeks( not seasonal). They all have septic, backup power sources.

 

[The Heretic]

Good ol muskeg. It was hell for hunting on. Like walking in quicksand all day. Ketchikan also gets somewhere in the neighborhood of 150" of rain a year so you never need to buy water.

I like it there (to a degree), although I was so busy working long hours that I did not get to see a lot of the island like I would have preferred. The people were nice and polite too - although it took some getting used to the slower pace. I much preferred it to Anchorage or Fairbanks. The weather wasn't near as harsh, there were a lot more tall trees - would have liked to do some fishing and hunting, but I just had no spare time while there.