Premium Diesel Fuel?

[jimwsea]

About 5 years ago, when i lived in the Seattle area, I heard a rumor of premium diesel at one of the major gas sellers down in Auburn. I looked around the next time I was in that area, but couldn't find any. Premium diesel may either have been a marketing ploy or an urban legend.

 

[deen_ad]

If your diesel engine will adjust to use the higher cetane fuel, you will get better performance and efficiency netting increased mileage.. If you can keep you foot outta the pedal.

That's kind of like saying you'll get more power and better mileage if you use premium unleaded rather than regular unleaded. That's been disproven in so many cases. The car manufacturers say there is no gain in running high octane gas in an engine designed for regular. Same with a diesel, as long as it meets the minimum cetane there won't be any gain by running fuel with a higher cetane.

Our MH has the Cummins ISC 8.3L 350 HP /1050 ft lbs torque engine with a Banks on it, giving 435 HP and 1200 ft lbs. It could be turned up more but then the Allison trans couldn't handle it. Even with the Banks kit there is no mention of needing higher cetane.

80 MILLION gun owners didn't shoot anyone today, a few criminals did!

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The "Feedback Score" is low by 4, not everyone posts it I guess.

Deen
NRA Benefactor/Recruiter
Washington Arms Collector member
South West Washington Arms Collector member

 

[ZeroRing]

That's kind of like saying you'll get more power and better mileage if you use premium unleaded rather than regular unleaded. That's been disproven in so many cases. The car manufacturers say there is no gain in running high octane gas in an engine designed for regular.

But does the same hold true for CETANE in diesel?

 

[VW_Factor]

But does the same hold true for CETANE in diesel?

Deen. Cetane in diesel is a totally different animal. From the wiki..

"Cetane number or CN is a measurement of the combustion quality of diesel fuel during compression ignition. It is a significant expression of diesel fuel quality among a number of other measurements that determine overall diesel fuel quality."

Most people should know higher octane ratings in gasoline mean the fuel burns a touch slower to prevent detonation in higher compression engines.. I don't see for a second why someone who has an engine that is designed for regular fuel would think running premium would give you more power, better mileage. It might, if your engines computer can adjust for it. However factory computers in most cars will not (unless you've purchased something high performance that requires premium to begin with. It has the compression to take advantage.).

Diesel engines and their computers in most normal circumstances will adjust injection timing and fuel amounts and/or boost to accommodate.

 

[ZeroRing]

VW,

So if I read that right, I should be able to either run a higher cetane fuel OR use an additive in my 2006 F350 and the engine/computer will adjust itself accordingly to the higher cetane I am running?

And yes, octane is totally different... and why a little 110 octane airplane gas mixed with standard premium unleaded makes my YFZ450 run good in the dunes!

 

[VW_Factor]

VW,

So if I read that right, I should be able to either run a higher cetane fuel OR use an additive in my 2006 F350 and the engine/computer will adjust itself accordingly to the higher cetane I am running?

And yes, octane is totally different... and why a little 110 octane airplane gas mixed with standard premium unleaded makes my YFZ450 run good in the dunes!

Improving the cetane for a '06 PowerStroke should very well make a difference. You'll notice bigger gains with bigger cetane numbers with a program in the computer as well (beyond stock). Doing that however, careful when towing, and watch EGR temps and trans fluid temps. Hi Po programming allows the computer to adjust outside "factory safe zones" which are extremely conservative.

 

[Bigfoot]

Interesting stuff. I'd like to see the feds back off the taxes on imported diesel vehicles so the manufacturers will bring em in. Every year I read that European and Asian car companies are going to give us good TDI vehicles and then every time they change their minds.

I recently heard that a South African corporation has bought a stake in a US natural gas field so they can convert NG to diesel. From what I hear the result is higher cetane than current diesel. NG is dirt cheap. The conversion is profitable if oil is above $75 per barrel IIRC. During the Apartheid embargoes years back South Africa dusted off Germany's old synthetic fuel process and improved it. I'm hoping that they succeed and the price of diesel drops making TDI vehicles more competitive.

 

[littlecars]

WOW hang on everybody. I can shine some light on this. I am a instrumentation tech. at a local oil refinery. So I have some FACTUAL information.

First, there is "Premeum diesel", but it should not be advertized at the pump, becouse you do not get a choise whether you buy "premuim" or "regular". A more accurate name would be "summer"(premium) and "winter"(regular) blend.

The EPA requires different standards for diesel fuel in the summer and winter.

The winter blend has a lower flash piont(the temperature that if will burn). The lower the flash piont, the easier it is to light. But there is a bad side to it, There are less BTU's. Therefor you get worse milage.


The summer blend(premuim) has a higher flash piont, so It is harder to ignite, but has more BTU's, so better milage.

There Most the diesel in the tacoma area comes from one of 3 places. U.S. Oil and refining(they make all there own fuel). Sound refining(they purchase fuel from all over the place buy barge and resell at a gas rack for dilivery to gas stations. and a Place called Nustar. It is a terminal that is hooked up the the olimpic pipeline and they Pipe all there fuels in to sell at a gasrack.

Your best bet for Good fuel that wont hurt your injectors and pump i to get it from a station that does a lot of bussiness. condensation biulds in the underground tanks, the more people that get fuel from that tank the less of the condensation you will get.


I dont drive a diesel so I dont know what is avalible at the auto parts store for additive, but At the refinery we add lubricity improver.

Hope this helps.

 

[Colt Carbine]

To the OP I too have a '06 F350 and purchase my fuel from sources that sell a lot fuel, even if it means that I pay a little more per gallon. As mentioned by others, those who do not sell a lot of diesel have a higher risk of condensation and/or contaminants in their tanks, thus leading to the possibility of getting in your tank. When I use a cetane booster it's Ford's Cetane Booster, I'm sure there are some that use something different.

Totally unrelated to the sensor in your tank. Make sure to drain the water from your fuel control module on a regular basis.

 

[parallax]

Hi fuel techie guy..
whats the deal with the change to low sulpher fuel?. my truck was built to run on the regular diesel that was used pre- 2007 and now all i can buy is low sulpher, will my engine life be effected by the new style low sulpher fuel?...........to the O.P. i have always just run whatever diesel i pull into,, never had any problems yet,, also,, i have thrown unwanted quarts of oil in my fueltank, for the last 4 years, never any problems,seems to burn anything, not suggesting anyone else do this...Heeeeeee ( 06 5 .9 cummins)

 

[KTM530XCW]

ULSD (ultra low sulfur diesel) was part of the EPA07 regulation for diesel vehicles. The sulfur content went from 500 ppm down to 15 ppm max. EPA claims that it's fine to run in pre-07 engines, however bottom line is that it has less lubrication than the old fuel. I haven't heard of any problems in the heavy truck industry yet. Should be just fine.

 

[beeseldietle]

I guess all you TDI guys already know about this place, TDIClub Forums - Powered by vBulletin if not anything you want to know about a TDI is there. I have the same screen name over there too.

 

[deen_ad]

Deen. Cetane in diesel is a totally different animal. From the wiki..

"Cetane number or CN is a measurement of the combustion quality of diesel fuel during compression ignition. It is a significant expression of diesel fuel quality among a number of other measurements that determine overall diesel fuel quality."

Most people should know higher octane ratings in gasoline mean the fuel burns a touch slower to prevent detonation in higher compression engines.. I don't see for a second why someone who has an engine that is designed for regular fuel would think running premium would give you more power, better mileage. It might, if your engines computer can adjust for it. However factory computers in most cars will not (unless you've purchased something high performance that requires premium to begin with. It has the compression to take advantage.).

Diesel engines and their computers in most normal circumstances will adjust injection timing and fuel amounts and/or boost to accommodate.

The problem with a wiki is that they can be written by anyone and added to by anyone. doesn't mean the info is correct by any means.

8 US Presidents have been NRA members
80 MILLION gun owners didn't shoot anyone today, a few criminals did!!

----------------------------------------------------------

The "Feedback Score" is low by 4, not everyone posts it I guess.

Deen
NRA Benefactor/Recruiter
Washington Arms Collector member
Arms Collectors of South West Washington member

 

[deen_ad]

ULSD (ultra low sulfur diesel) was part of the EPA07 regulation for diesel vehicles. The sulfur content went from 500 ppm down to 15 ppm max. EPA claims that it's fine to run in pre-07 engines, however bottom line is that it has less lubrication than the old fuel. I haven't heard of any problems in the heavy truck industry yet. Should be just fine.

There were some problems reported on some RV sites with pump seals drying out and leaking with the new fuel. Our 2002 Cummins ISC hasn't had any problems so far. I do add an additive in every tank, cheap insurance IMHO.

8 US Presidents have been NRA members
80 MILLION gun owners didn't shoot anyone today, a few criminals did!!

----------------------------------------------------------

The "Feedback Score" is low by 4, not everyone posts it I guess.

Deen
NRA Benefactor/Recruiter
Washington Arms Collector member
Arms Collectors of South West Washington member

 

[deen_ad]

WOW hang on everybody. I can shine some light on this. I am a instrumentation tech. at a local oil refinery. So I have some FACTUAL information.

First, there is "Premeum diesel", but it should not be advertized at the pump, becouse you do not get a choise whether you buy "premuim" or "regular". A more accurate name would be "summer"(premium) and "winter"(regular) blend.

The EPA requires different standards for diesel fuel in the summer and winter.

The winter blend has a lower flash piont(the temperature that if will burn). The lower the flash piont, the easier it is to light. But there is a bad side to it, There are less BTU's. Therefor you get worse milage.


The summer blend(premuim) has a higher flash piont, so It is harder to ignite, but has more BTU's, so better milage.

There Most the diesel in the tacoma area comes from one of 3 places. U.S. Oil and refining(they make all there own fuel). Sound refining(they purchase fuel from all over the place buy barge and resell at a gas rack for dilivery to gas stations. and a Place called Nustar. It is a terminal that is hooked up the the olimpic pipeline and they Pipe all there fuels in to sell at a gasrack.

Your best bet for Good fuel that wont hurt your injectors and pump i to get it from a station that does a lot of bussiness. condensation biulds in the underground tanks, the more people that get fuel from that tank the less of the condensation you will get.


I dont drive a diesel so I dont know what is avalible at the auto parts store for additive, but At the refinery we add lubricity improver.

Hope this helps.

"Summer" diesel is #2
"Winter" diesel is #1 diesel combined with #2 diesel
The reason for doing that is to LOWER the gel point of the fuel in the winter.
#2 diesel starts gelling at around 32° F (called the cloud point) and fully gels at around 15° F

If the fuel gels in your tank, lines and filters you aren't going ANYWHERE till you either are towed to a heated space and everything warms up, the weather warms up or you start changing filters with an anti-gel additive added to the fuel.

8 US Presidents have been NRA members
80 MILLION gun owners didn't shoot anyone today, a few criminals did!!

----------------------------------------------------------

The "Feedback Score" is low by 4, not everyone posts it I guess.

Deen
NRA Benefactor/Recruiter
Washington Arms Collector member
Arms Collectors of South West Washington member

 

[deen_ad]

About 5 years ago, when i lived in the Seattle area, I heard a rumor of premium diesel at one of the major gas sellers down in Auburn. I looked around the next time I was in that area, but couldn't find any. Premium diesel may either have been a marketing ploy or an urban legend.

If diesel is 40 cetane, and they are selling 41 cetane then tey can call it "premium" but you'd never notice the difference in driving.

8 US Presidents have been NRA members
80 MILLION gun owners didn't shoot anyone today, a few criminals did!!

----------------------------------------------------------

The "Feedback Score" is low by 4, not everyone posts it I guess.

Deen
NRA Benefactor/Recruiter
Washington Arms Collector member
Arms Collectors of South West Washington member

 

[littlecars]

Hi fuel techie guy..
whats the deal with the change to low sulpher fuel?. my truck was built to run on the regular diesel that was used pre- 2007 and now all i can buy is low sulpher, will my engine life be effected by the new style low sulpher fuel?...........to the O.P. i have always just run whatever diesel i pull into,, never had any problems yet,, also,, i have thrown unwanted quarts of oil in my fueltank, for the last 4 years, never any problems,seems to burn anything, not suggesting anyone else do this...Heeeeeee ( 06 5 .9 cummins)

Low sulpher is mandated by the EPA. They say it is bad for the enviroment. So oil refineries spend Billions of dallors removing the sulpher. The sulpher works as a lubricator. so to compensate for the lack of sulpher, a additive called "lubriciry" is added. It is safe to run in and diesel that is desogned to run sulphered diesel.

Dont worry about it

 

[littlecars]

"Summer" diesel is #2
"Winter" diesel is #1 diesel combined with #2 diesel
The reason for doing that is to LOWER the gel point of the fuel in the winter.
#2 diesel starts gelling at around 32° F (called the cloud point) and fully gels at around 15° F

If the fuel gels in your tank, lines and filters you aren't going ANYWHERE till you either are towed to a heated space and everything warms up, the weather warms up or you start changing filters with an anti-gel additive added to the fuel.

8 US Presidents have been NRA members
80 MILLION gun owners didn't shoot anyone today, a few criminals did!!

----------------------------------------------------------

The "Feedback Score" is low by 4, not everyone posts it I guess.

Deen
NRA Benefactor/Recruiter
Washington Arms Collector member
Arms Collectors of South West Washington member

Thanks for the simpler explination.

FYI, I am in the market for a 1998-2002 SLT cummins 3/4 ton 4x4 extended cab, short bed, with the NV 4500 transmision, any color but red. I would also consider the NV5600 trans. so If you know of one.....