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What is an 80% build?
An 80% build is where the lower receiver, the serialized part of an AR15 (where the trigger is housed and the magazine is inserted), is sold as an 80% complete kit, which does not require a background check because it is not a "firearm". The purchaser then uses machine tools to finish the last 20% of the lower receiver, such as milling out the pocket for the trigger and firing mechanism. This creates a finished lower receiver which can then be built into an AR pistol or rifle without a background check. Currently, it is legal to build your own firearms for your own personal use and an 80% kit allows that. While ARs are one of the most common 80% kits, you can also get them for Glock platform pistols, 1911 style pistols, etc. Most of these kits utilize a separately purchased jig to act as a guide to completing the receiver/frame/etc.

Example of an 80% AR-15 lower receiver. Note the solid aluminum area where a fire control group would fit:
1280__32417.1614120680.1280.1280__39532.1628096700.jpg

An example of a lower receiver, jig, and router as a kit. The router is used to do the machining, but more professional machine tools are strongly recommended:
EPA_AR10-1-router__83287.1628107879.jpg

For comparison, here is a 0% complete receiver:
EPA_AR15LOWERS_EPA-ZPL_L45__39190.1646174497.jpg
 
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How is a tax stamp associated with any particular gun without a serial number?
Your first statement was that you were shown a Colt M16 rifle and it didn't have a serial number.
A real US Government Colt M16 from the Vietnam era should be full auto and somebody could have stolen it from a private individual that had legally tax stamped it and then filed off the serial numbers.
What I was trying to point out is that there are legal tax stamped machine guns out there and by doing some research, a person could save them from the ATF destroying them.
 
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It is possible to get all the colt like markings in an 80% using a small purpose built cnc. If I am guessing right, its an 80%. If semi, transfer is dubious but would have to go through an FFL. If F/A, best bet is it is a fed.
 
Correct on the requirements for an SN for non serialized firearms prior to 68! I have bought several, most shops simply list the firearm only by Brand and model, and Current Caliber, say Mauser and model it is closet to, Mod 98, caliber .270 Win, and under the SN, they some times write No SN, or. SN not required! I have spoken to many FFLs who have gotten audited and they all said the ATF dosnt care unless it's a modern type firearm that would/should have an SN, otherwise they simply don't care about the old Mauser Sporters built when the SN was stamped on the barrel and then the barrels were changed along with caliber! I have had several FFLs write in Remington Sporter, and call it good!
A lot of 1903 Springfield's have had their SNs damaged or made un readable by sporterizing them back in the day, or covering them with scope mounts, same same, the ATF dosnt care!
SN should be removed from form 4473 altogether! The background check is for the person and not the firearm! The ONLY reason to record it is to establish a de facto registration system. Any serialized firearm can be checked for stolen status as a separate step unassociated with the purchaser.
 
A guy asked me a question I couldn't answer so I'll pose it here -

He has an old rifle with the serial number worn off through decades of use. Can he "re-serialize" the rifle, and if so, how?

He claims it's been in the family since new, over 100 years ago.




P
 
A guy asked me a question I couldn't answer so I'll pose it here -

He has an old rifle with the serial number worn off through decades of use. Can he "re-serialize" the rifle, and if so, how?

He claims it's been in the family since new, over 100 years ago.




P
The gun is over 100 years old. Why even waste the time?
 
Appreciate all the helpful comments and I feel more educated. I'm a noob when it comes to firearms. Gonna walk away from something that seems to be more trouble than it's worth.

Thanks again, appreciate ya'll

btw, where would the serial number normally be on this type of firearm?
Smart move imo. If u want an AR15 you could by new, from an ffl, or from someone here in the classifieds for probably the same $ I would guess. Kentucky gun co I think it was had an Anderson ar15 for less than $400 recently for example. Buying from a reputable member here or new fe avoids all the red flags and risks. Personally I can't see any benefit in engaging with someone like this seller who is either ignorant and making up stuff or is being dishonest. There are a gazillion ARs out there and u can get exactly what u want with no risks.
 
There probably aren't a lot of you folks that were aware that the Israelis negotiated a deal with the U.S. Gov't. to purchase non serial numbered handguns for use by their intelligence service. By doing so, the U.S. could claim plausible deniability as to who manufactured the guns and who supplied them to Israel. This was all back in the '60's. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Colt had manufactured M-16's without serial numbers for any number of reasons, all with a "wink' from the gov't.
 
I work for the Dept of Veterans Affairs and some years ago I went shooting with some of the guys from work including a general surgeon that wanted to shoot his 308. He had recently put a Thunderbeast suppressor on the bolt gun. Doc was a super smart man and we had many discussions over the years about guns and history, he told me both of his parents were retired CIA. On that day shooting he brought with him his father's unserialize Wather PPK. It was a sweet little pistol. Just thought I would share a cool story with you all.
 
You might ask an FFL versed in C&R. Being it was manufactured over 100 years ago. Guns manufactured before 1968 weren't required to have serial #'s. It may be transferable in the condition it's in now.
 
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OP, I think you made the right choice walking from that sale. Even if it wasn't a sting, it sounds like potential legal trouble. I think the other members have cleared things up pretty well so I won't reiterate what's been said.



The background check is for the person and not the firearm!
I'm not an FFL and I don't know much about BGCs but I don't think this is true because of one of my experiences. I've bought about 12 firearms in the last year and all 12 BGCs got approved while I was in the store but one (so 11 cleared quick, 1 got put on hold. 9 were before I got a CHL). The reason the one went into purgatory for three weeks was because the guns serial number was still sitting on another person's BGC that went past 30 days, The person decided they didn't want to buy the gun (because BGCs were taking too long), and it didn't get cleared from that original BGC. (The FFLs fault). Once it was cleared off the other person's BGC I got approval. So in that case it was the pistol that held up my BGC. I'm not trying to argue, I'm just offering another perspective from my personal experience. I'm reality, only the ATF really knows how BGCs work and at that, I'm not sure they even know how BGCs work, it's the ATF, they can change their minds at will. :s0008:
 

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