Pre-Crime Policing Disgruntled Man Update

[tionico]

Remember in the very first article, someone mentioned (they had information not in the original article) that this man's supervisor had been in similar disturbances on at least two other occasions...... my guess, and it is purely a hunch, is that this supe is a strange piece of work, and has a hard time working together with his underlings..... possibly overbearing, disrespectful, power wielding, etc. If this guy Pyles is indeed the third such case with this same supervisor, there may well be some underlying issues that need addressed at the ODOT regional office.

It will likely come to light, as well, just WHO made the claim that this guy was "very disgruntled" and "a threat". If this info comes from the aforementioned supe, and it comes out in open court (as seems likely) it could go down VERY bad for someone.... making false allegations about the intent of another is not right... and in this case seems to have led to a rather serious incident.

My guess is that the "inside information" from "the source" within ODOT made the claims, sounded the warning, and got the attention of the local LEA directed toward Pyles..... at which point the "fresh" firearms acquisitions came to light (Medford Police and/or Jackson County Sheriff) will have got the report of the handfun sales, as per standard proceedures, the name "rang a bell", conclusions were jumped at.... and this scenario was played out.

I do hope some official heads roll, starting with the original "informer", using his position as a means of "payback" or domination games. Next should come the lead investigators in this thing, the guys who put the "complaint" together with the legal firearms purchases, and came to the conclusion that two plus two equals seventeen.

Taking him into protective custody is possibly defensible, depending upon their sources of information and what steps they took to corroborate it with other individuals "in the know". If it was merely the word of one person, they are standing on very unstable ground.

It seems, from what we have seen thus far, that entering his home with no warrant, and seizing his firearms, again with no warrant, were highly illegal. Taking a man into protective custody does NOT involve taking any of his property into protective custody. There appears to be a total lack of grounds for this seizure. And I rather suspect they know it, else they never would have returned them so quickly and with such little fuss. Hand delivered back to the guy's house, no new "background checks", no waiting the several weeks first stated...... smells like the boys in blue got caught with their hands in the bickie bin..... and made nice as quickly as they could to try and stave off heavy retaliation.

It is highly interesting this chap got his tax return and went out buying what he's likely wanted for a long time but could not due to lack of ready cash. He WAS working from home, this was not without income.

I hope some attorneys can get to the bottom of this whole thing, and a civil matter opened up,...... but more importantly a criminal matter opened for the gross violation of the man's Fourth Ammendment protected rights. Castro's Cube, Chavez' Venezuela, this ain't.

 

[nixuser]

why do we keep refering to the weapons we buy as "assualt"rifle" it is my understanding and correct me if i am wrong that an "assualt rifle" is An assault rifle is loosely defined as a selective fire rifle designed for combat that uses an intermediate cartridge and a detachable magazine. Assault rifles are the standard infantry weapons in most modern armies. Examples of assault rifles include the M16 rifle, AK family, G36, FN FNC, and the Steyr AUG.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_rifle

WE NEED TO STOP USING THAT TERM "ASSAULT RIFLE" IT IS NOT CORRECT FOR MOST WEAPON,S HELD BY US GUN OWNERS AND WE SHOULD STOP USING THAT TERM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Jerry]

why do we keep refering to the weapons we buy as "assualt"rifle" it is my understanding and correct me if i am wrong that an "assualt rifle" is an assault rifle is loosely defined as a selective fire rifle designed for combat that uses an intermediate cartridge and a detachable magazine. Assault rifles are the standard infantry weapons in most modern armies. Examples of assault rifles include the m16 rifle, ak family, g36, fn fnc, and the steyr aug.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/assault_rifle

we need to stop using that term "assault rifle" it is not correct for most weapon,s held by us gun owners and we should stop using that term !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

you are absolutely correct!!!

 

[Blitzkrieg]

why do we keep refering to the weapons we buy as "assualt"rifle" it is my understanding and correct me if i am wrong that an "assualt rifle" is An assault rifle is loosely defined as a selective fire rifle designed for combat that uses an intermediate cartridge and a detachable magazine. Assault rifles are the standard infantry weapons in most modern armies. Examples of assault rifles include the M16 rifle, AK family, G36, FN FNC, and the Steyr AUG.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_rifle

WE NEED TO STOP USING THAT TERM "ASSAULT RIFLE" IT IS NOT CORRECT FOR MOST WEAPON,S HELD BY US GUN OWNERS AND WE SHOULD STOP USING THAT TERM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's even more annoying than calling a magazine a "clip" because the former has little damage potential, while the "AW" crap has been used for decades to scare the unwitting and ignorant sheeple, even showing full autos firing at ranges while the idiot commie reporter rambles on about "AWs needing to be banned".

 

[onearmedswordsman]

Funny. If the "said" rifle (i refuse to use the term) is full auto, then, they are pretty much already very tightly regulated. Why then, they keep coming after our semi-auto ARs, AKs, FALs, etc?

IIRC, the term was iconned by the yellow media and politicians. For what I care, the can call them whatever they want. But, I agree we should not use the term at all, for any kind of weapon. It kinds of "validates" it.

My $0.022 (adjusted for inflation)

 

[tionico]

the swordsman with one arm has it right.... this term was coined back when the Brady Brats were called something else... they felt a new term with some political impact was needed..... and coined this one. The press immediatly took it up and used it, thus establishing it in the lexicon. How many times have we heard some media account of a shooting where the perp used a "semi automatic assault weapon".. and they did NOT mean an M1 Garand. (which truly IS a semi automatic assault weapon.. purpose designed for that very use and application).

Now anyone can go out to the local WalMart, Freddies, BiMart, Sportsman's, and buy an "assault weapon", a Ruger 10/22, or a Mini 14, either one with black plascit thingies hanging below the forepiece. Take that stock off and refit an original brown wood or plastic stock, presto, it ceases to be an "assault weapon", though its function has changed not one whit.

But WE here all know that already, right?

let's call a spade a spade..... but NOT call a diamond a spade.

 

[Stomper]

This is all very disturbing.
Things like this are becoming more and more common and all too reminicent of the Soviet Union and Chinese tactics.
Thought and perceived thought police.
This is an extremely DANGEROUS trend !!
Almost as bad as the witch trials of long ago.
How the **** did this country revert to this...............

It has become this way because (we) U.S. CITIZENS have been asleep at the switch for decades... we WANTED to believe that those in government wanted to (and would) take care of (and look out for) our interests. What we are now starting to see is the very nature of a "Progressive" minded government... this is MINOR LEAGUE to what you WILL see happen in the future.

"BUT THIS IS THE UNITED STATES, THIS WOULD NEVER HAPPEN HERE".... you say?

huh, WELCOME TO THE PARTY PAL!!




Time after time, the ONLY promise SOCIALISM/COMMUNISM/PROGRESSIVISM/STATISM has ever kept is... OPPRESSION. (would you like cream & sugar on your share?)

 

[tionico]

Stomper has it right, both in what is happening and how it CAN happen.

quote:
"BUT THIS IS THE UNITED STATES, THIS WOULD NEVER HAPPEN HERE".... you say? huh, WELCOME TO THE PARTY PAL!!
close quote

Yup.... the French peasants and towndwellers never thought it could happen to France.... how many thousands of heads rolled into the baskets of the guillotines? How about Nicaragua, back in the 60's and 70's? An oppressive dictator, then his son, and yet another son, turned the screws down harder and harder... corruption? Everyonne wanted their share of the pie. Free food/land/stuff? Sign me up.. never mind it came from someone else's wealth. Speak truth, when things weren't right? No one dared... because they'd bet "quieted" rather quietly..... until they offed the one guy who had the spine to speak out, and would not be silenced.... and whom the people KNEW had their best interests at heart, never mind the personal cost. That started a revolution, tossed the creeps had been runnning the place for three generations like it was his own personal sandbox and HE had the only baseball bats.
Trouble is, the people still didn't "get it", they let another thug take his place... ten years of war and corruption, he lost a heavily rigged election, and the nation began to prosper. More trouble, though... that same thug managed to wait until the people went back to sleep, got some laws changed so he could be "president" another term..... and did an end run round the election system. Guess who's prez now? Yup.. same thug. Up to the same stuff.

HOW did this happen? Simple--- people cared to do little more than work their fields, go to their jobs, feed their kids, add on a small room to their shack...... tunnel vision.

And we suffer the same disease here, in the main. Part of why I am thankful for a portion of the population, growing rather rapidly these days, who are finally waking up to the FACT there is a large faction of the controlling party wanting to disarm us.... neutralise us... and the only reason they could be wanting to do this is because they have plans for us, and those plans are NOT good. Incidents like Mr. Pyles reveal the root of such thinking. Let those who have eyes to see, and ears to hear, SEE and HEAR. Before long, the goon squads could well be on the lookout for any who might even think this was handled poorly..... and as to those who see through the thin veneer of propriety proffered by the LEA's involved, and think them wrong, well, we have a place for you..... you will NOT be able to pass the mandatory psych eval at the local community hospital, thus we must "take care of you".

"they came for the freedom lovers, but I was already free so I didn't say anything".

Clinton wants to ratify the UN Small Arms Treaty.. some new version no one's even seen yet.

the Kenyan wants to rule our entire medical care system.


Washington State wants to tell us what weapons we may/may not own.

California already DOES tell their people they cannot carry concealed weapons in public, most places, and has a list of "approved" weaoons., and those even registered. Ammunition is next, starting next year. Makes it very easy to come round and take them up "when the time comes", as it surely will.

The detainment of Mr. Pyles and the confiscation of his personal property outside the due process of law portends much worse to come, UNLESS it is fought, hard, until those with the badges and guns "get it" and return to doing their rightful jobs.

 

[Stomper]

How about Nicaragua, back in the 60's and 70's? An oppressive dictator, then his son, and yet another son, turned the screws down harder and harder... corruption? Everyonne wanted their share of the pie. Free food/land/stuff? Sign me up.. never mind it came from someone else's wealth. Speak truth, when things weren't right? No one dared... because they'd bet "quieted" rather quietly..... until they offed the one guy who had the spine to speak out, and would not be silenced.... and whom the people KNEW had their best interests at heart, never mind the personal cost. That started a revolution, tossed the creeps had been runnning the place for three generations like it was his own personal sandbox and HE had the only baseball bats.
Trouble is, the people still didn't "get it", they let another thug take his place... ten years of war and corruption, he lost a heavily rigged election, and the nation began to prosper. More trouble, though... that same thug managed to wait until the people went back to sleep, got some laws changed so he could be "president" another term..... and did an end run round the election system. Guess who's prez now? Yup.. same thug. Up to the same stuff.

I now that situation well, I've personally shed blood, sweat, and tears back in the 80's when all that was poppin' (the first time)... El President' Daniel Ortega... back in the saddle, again.


Societies (in general) ultimately get the government they deserve... too bad they have to take the good things (and people) down with them.

 

[NWPilgrim]

It appears that detaining someone for a mental eval may be within the law enforcement powers and discretion. However, the allegation at ODOT and repeated use of the term "very disgruntled worker" by City of Medford, and the entering of house and seizure of property appear to be violations.

It looks like ODOT and City of Medford will get the pleasure of a public colonoscopy soon. Sometimes having a trained up SWAT team sitting around with nothing to do is a dangerous temptation to give the boys some experience and keep them tuned.

Couldn't a detective had just called to see if the guy would come in and talk first?

 

[Member 5605]

Couldn't a detective had just called to see if the guy would come in and talk first?

Why?

That would only occupy one person for maybe an hour or two. The route they took entertained many more people and gave them more reason to be employed.

Remember:
100>1

 

[Stomper]

In defense of SWAT members MOST of them pray to God they never have to be deployed in that fashion, although there are certainly adrenaline junkies on SWAT teams. The use of SWAT guys, the other cops, and the terminology applied to what is an "assault rifle" is NOT the issue, those are merely symptoms of a BROKEN SYSTEM... the broken system is the issue.

 

[chemist]

Stomper has it right, both in what is happening and how it CAN happen.

quote:
"BUT THIS IS THE UNITED STATES, THIS WOULD NEVER HAPPEN HERE".... you say? huh, WELCOME TO THE PARTY PAL!!
close quote

Yup.... the French peasants and towndwellers never thought it could happen to France.... how many thousands of heads rolled into the baskets of the guillotines? How about Nicaragua, back in the 60's and 70's? An oppressive dictator, then his son, and yet another son, turned the screws down harder and harder... corruption? Everyonne wanted their share of the pie. Free food/land/stuff? Sign me up.. never mind it came from someone else's wealth. Speak truth, when things weren't right? No one dared... because they'd bet "quieted" rather quietly..... until they offed the one guy who had the spine to speak out, and would not be silenced.... and whom the people KNEW had their best interests at heart, never mind the personal cost. That started a revolution, tossed the creeps had been runnning the place for three generations like it was his own personal sandbox and HE had the only baseball bats.
Trouble is, the people still didn't "get it", they let another thug take his place... ten years of war and corruption, he lost a heavily rigged election, and the nation began to prosper. More trouble, though... that same thug managed to wait until the people went back to sleep, got some laws changed so he could be "president" another term..... and did an end run round the election system. Guess who's prez now? Yup.. same thug. Up to the same stuff.

HOW did this happen? Simple--- people cared to do little more than work their fields, go to their jobs, feed their kids, add on a small room to their shack...... tunnel vision.

And we suffer the same disease here, in the main. Part of why I am thankful for a portion of the population, growing rather rapidly these days, who are finally waking up to the FACT there is a large faction of the controlling party wanting to disarm us.... neutralise us... and the only reason they could be wanting to do this is because they have plans for us, and those plans are NOT good. Incidents like Mr. Pyles reveal the root of such thinking. Let those who have eyes to see, and ears to hear, SEE and HEAR. Before long, the goon squads could well be on the lookout for any who might even think this was handled poorly..... and as to those who see through the thin veneer of propriety proffered by the LEA's involved, and think them wrong, well, we have a place for you..... you will NOT be able to pass the mandatory psych eval at the local community hospital, thus we must "take care of you".

"they came for the freedom lovers, but I was already free so I didn't say anything".

Clinton wants to ratify the UN Small Arms Treaty.. some new version no one's even seen yet.

the Kenyan wants to rule our entire medical care system.


Washington State wants to tell us what weapons we may/may not own.

California already DOES tell their people they cannot carry concealed weapons in public, most places, and has a list of "approved" weaoons., and those even registered. Ammunition is next, starting next year. Makes it very easy to come round and take them up "when the time comes", as it surely will.

The detainment of Mr. Pyles and the confiscation of his personal property outside the due process of law portends much worse to come, UNLESS it is fought, hard, until those with the badges and guns "get it" and return to doing their rightful jobs.

Wow. This thread was making some serious sense up until this wingnut diatribe popped up.
Taking back the control of the local policing? Count me in!
However this "Kenyan" stuff really shows where the tinfoil roosts. Thanks but no thanks.

 

[Father of four]

Any updates anyone?

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Wow. This thread was making some serious sense up until this wingnut diatribe popped up.
Taking back the control of the local policing? Count me in!
However this "Kenyan" stuff really shows where the tinfoil roosts. Thanks but no thanks.

Show us the birth certificate..

 

[Stomper]

Wow. This thread was making some serious sense up until this wingnut diatribe popped up.
Taking back the control of the local policing? Count me in!
However this "Kenyan" stuff really shows where the tinfoil roosts. Thanks but no thanks.

Woah, take it easy on the "tinfoil" comments... I was just answering an earlier question someone asked on "how the H**L did this country revert to this"...


Besides, Alec Baldwin called him "the Kenyan" on "30 Rock" FIRST... besides, I'm not a "Birther" anyway.

 

[Gunner3456]

This article is sensationalist and biased. Not saying that makes it wrong, but it is what it is.

In my mind, this is a key quote:

Joseph Bloom, a psychiatrist at Oregon Health & Science University and a specialist in civil commitment law, says the police who apprehended and detained Pyles were likely acting under the cover of Oregon law. Bloom says the police are permitted to make a determination on their own to take someone in for a mental health evaluation—there's no requirement that they first consult with a judge or mental health professional. Bloom believes this is a wise policy. "It's important to remember that this is a civil process," he says. "There's no arrest, these people aren't being taking to jail. It's not a criminal action."

Whether the police used this power correctly (and whether they should have this power at all) are, of course, open to debate - but an arrest warrant is not required to detain someone. Most of the the posters in this thread and the previous one have been barking up the wrong tree.

Apparently they are just as anxious this time to bark up the wrong tree. You didn't even get recognition or a comment.

This thread was started to stir up chit over another thread on the same subject which was locked.

This is a complete waste of time. Been here, done this.

 

[tionico]

from Pilgrim:

It looks like ODOT and City of Medford will get the pleasure of a public colonoscopy soon. Sometimes having a trained up SWAT team sitting around with nothing to do is a dangerous temptation to give the boys some experience and keep them tuned.

Couldn't a detective had just called to see if the guy would come in and talk first?

or, after promising the poor guy at some ungodly hour of the morning that they would not take him off the property, nor handcuff him, nor come into his house, how's about having the guys from psych come and have a nice chat with him on his own front porch? Oh wait, that would mean getting a doc out of bed early, time and a half, all that sort of bother.
so they just broke their word and did the three things they promised they'd not. Just the sort of thing the public needs to build up trust and confidence in those who "keep the peace". Seems things were pretty peaceful on that street until the Boys with their New Toys showed up. Pilgrim I think you've made an excellent point: that SWAT team was sitting about unused too much..... and those in power were a bit too heavy on the hair trigger to trot them out and give them a trick, show their stuff, DO something. How many millions have been invested in the toys and the boys for that SWAT team? How's the budget looking down there in Jackson County these days?

 

[tionico]

Show us the birth certificate..

Granny sez............

 

[Partsproduction]

This is a complete waste of time. Been here, done this.

Yeah, and evidently you still don't get it. The reason these things keep happening is because too many people don't get it.

We need to donate to OFF and the NRA (I already have) if we want to keep our rights. This incident is symbolic of the way some police in this country think.

Not all cops think they are here to monitor and overpower the citizenry, and they need our support. But helping the kind of police who planned and carried out this nightmare is not being of service to good police!

We must demand that the police police themselves or these things will continue. If we can change the way police do their jobs we won't be involved in a "Complete waste of time"!

Implying that this isn't important news is adding to the problem! It is very important!