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Practical Rifle at Tri-County
- Thread Starter KTM530XCW
- Start date
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There aren't many venues like the Tri-county rifle matches for you to really find out how you and your rifle can work together in conditions that are as close to real world as you can get....at least without being on a 2 way range.
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- 173
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- 9
I have finally requested a Saturday off to join the club in February but now I am seeing that Saturdays off will need to be a more common practice... Looks like a blast!
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Be careful...it can become quite the addiction. But it sure is fun, and you will be hard pressed to find a better learning curve for really knowing what you and your rifle can do. And you get to do it on a one way range...Sure, you learn alot on two way ranges, but it is hard to last quite as long.
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- 357
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- 37
Nah, for.223/5.56 I use any 55gr copper jacketed brass cased round- they work well enough...if I'm up to it, I'll load some 69gr match rounds for a little more wallop or accuracy at distance.
Absolutely no AP (armor piercing) rounds. We check ammo and if you're found with this stuff you will be ejected from the match and likely "encouraged" to pay for the steel target(s) that you damage.
I usually order PMC or American Eagle in lots of 1000 from places like Palmetto State Armory.
Absolutely no AP (armor piercing) rounds. We check ammo and if you're found with this stuff you will be ejected from the match and likely "encouraged" to pay for the steel target(s) that you damage.
I usually order PMC or American Eagle in lots of 1000 from places like Palmetto State Armory.
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- 508
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- 77
Use ammo that is very reliable, and that your rifle has been specifically zeroed with. Sure, most military ammo using the same bullet weight will be close but then again, if it isn't and causes you lots of misses that you could have otherwise avoided, it wouldn't be a good choice. Presuming that your ammo can be of mixed lots, or that a new batch will perform the way you hope is just asking for accuracy problems.
I like to clean my rifle, then fire a few rounds (10-20) to confirm both zero and function prior to a match. A newly cleaned rifle usually doesn't shoot to the same place as one that has been fouled.
I like to clean my rifle, then fire a few rounds (10-20) to confirm both zero and function prior to a match. A newly cleaned rifle usually doesn't shoot to the same place as one that has been fouled.
- Messages
- 508
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- 77
I agree with PDXGS about the 69 grain ammo. The 68-69 grain ammo has about the same wind drift as a 308 round (lots less than a 5.56 at 200 yards). Another suggestion for some really fine ammo is finding some of the Black Hills seconds that are sold in 50 round boxes....and at much less price. I used to use that ammo for really big matches because of it's consistency, accuracy, and reliability. And I'm a very careful handloader....
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- 72
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- 65
I use American Eagle 55gn from BiMart. I may or may not clean my rifle between matches. I have run as many as 3 matches without cleaning. I find the nut behind the bolt to be the most important item to accuracy in PR.
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- 72
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A magnet is your friend, check at home before the RO's check.
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- 508
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- 77
The American Eagle, and the Federal cartridge company ammo are both good. Although you know better than I do how long your rifle will work without cleaning, I have learned the hard way that poor reliability resulting from a dirty rifle can really wreck things quickly. Probably why the Marines are so fastidious about cleaning weapons....some old habits just die hard.
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I understand cleaning is important, just that if my rifle can not endure 3 matches (~300 rounds) without being cleaned, then it is not the right gun for me.
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Sniper match. No safety briefing for new shooters necessary. In the past, these matches consisted of four or five stages with distances ranging as far out as 600 yds. and in as close as 50yds.
Positional shooting is likely with higher scores given to those who shoot standing, over kneeling over sitting over prone.
Most folks are shooting .308 bolt and gas guns.
Know your DOPE to 600 yds.
Positional shooting is likely with higher scores given to those who shoot standing, over kneeling over sitting over prone.
Most folks are shooting .308 bolt and gas guns.
Know your DOPE to 600 yds.
- Messages
- 508
- Reactions
- 77
The tentative course descriptions just came out in an email. No, I don't have the ability to transfer the email onto this forum.
I do ( on iPhone now)
H
WARNING ORDER:
The annual Practical Rifle Sniper match is Saturday, February 11th.* We will meet at the BigBore 200/300 yard range.* Practical Rifle orientation is not required to shoot this match and there will be no orientation class on Friday.*
The mandatory safety briefing will start at 930 am.* To save our steel targets, magnum calibers and steel-core ammunition will not be allowed for any portion of this match.* All rifles will remain cased until the Stage Range Officer instructs you to open your case.* Removing a rifle from a case without being instructed to will be a match disqualification.* There will be no safety tables at this match.* Scores may or may not be available at the end of the match.* There will be no trophies or plaques this year.
Successful shooters will have good data from 20-500 yards and understand the effect of mechanical offset when making precise shot placements at relatively close distances.* They will have a good understanding of their capability with the equipment they choose to use and will be able to select and engage targets under time pressure based on that realistic assessment of their abilities.* They will be comfortable shooting from supported positions other than the prone.* They will be able to identify an assigned target in an array of similar targets.* They will apply strict muzzle discipline at all times.* The location of the firing position on several stages demands rigorous enforcement of the prohibition against the muzzle of a loaded rifle pointing above the backstop.* Violation of this rule on these stages will result in an immediate stage DQ.* No warnings will be given.* All of these skills will be performed on the clock, but an effort has been made to design a match that places a much higher value on accuracy than it does on time.* There will be maximum round limits for each stage.* Every round will count.* You will not be able to miss fast enough to win this match.* Ranges to all targets will be provided. Some stage details are still being finalized, but final round count will between 40 and 50.
*
The following are stage plans so far, which may be modified before the match begins.
Stage One - SH1 – choose your point value
Start with the rifle grounded and loaded with a maximum of 5 rounds with the bolt open and the shooter standing behind the rifle.
On the start signal attempt to score as many points as possible by engaging targets of your choice with five rounds only.* You may only hit any target only once, but you may use more than one round in an attempt to hit a target.* Maximum time will be 120 seconds.* Actual times will be recorded for tie breaking.* You will need to tell the stage range officer which target you are attempting for each shot.* You may not get credit for hits if the SRO does not know which target to watch.
*
Stage Two* - *Black Powder Ridge
Start at low ready with the rifle loaded with three rounds and the bolt open.
On the start signal advance to the barricade and engage each of the three visible steel targets with one round from one shoulder.* Move to the opposite side of the barricade, load 3 more rounds, and engage the three steel targets from the opposite shoulder.* The rifle must be empty when movement is commenced, and the bolt may not go forward until the rifle is resting on the barricade and the muzzle is pointed toward the target area.* Maximum time will be 90 seconds.
*
Stage Three* *- BigBore Range – Locate and terminate
Start in the shooting position with the rifle loaded with 4 rounds only and the bolt open.
The target arrays will be raised from the pits immediately prior to the start signal.* On the start signal engage your assigned targets at 200 and 300 rounds with one round each.* Par time will be 30 seconds.* This exercise will be shot twice, with two sets of targets, 8 rounds total, aggregate score and time.
Stage Four - *BigBore range – Mover
Start in shooting position loaded with 5 rounds only.* Engage mover as it appears for one pass out and one pass back.* Score is points scored on target.
*
Stage Five - Action Rifle range* - Eggs
Start standing with your unloaded rifle in one hand, 5 loose rounds in other hand
On the start signal, move to shooting position, load after muzzle is pointed at eggs and engage 5 eggs in sequence from either the left or right side of the array.* Eggs hit out of sequence will not count toward your score. *Each egg hit is 50 points.* You time in seconds is subtracted from your points. *Maximum time will be 120 seconds.*
Remain in shooting position on completion of the egg stage and wait for command to load for the next stage.
*
Stage Six* - Close-range Accuracy
On command, load your rifle with a maximum of 5 rounds.* On the start signal engage each of your numbered targets at each distance with one round each.* Your time in seconds will be subtracted from your score.* Maximum time will be 60 seconds.
--
Randy
*
*
"If your dog doesn't like somebody, you probably shouldn't either."
____________________________
H
WARNING ORDER:
The annual Practical Rifle Sniper match is Saturday, February 11th.* We will meet at the BigBore 200/300 yard range.* Practical Rifle orientation is not required to shoot this match and there will be no orientation class on Friday.*
The mandatory safety briefing will start at 930 am.* To save our steel targets, magnum calibers and steel-core ammunition will not be allowed for any portion of this match.* All rifles will remain cased until the Stage Range Officer instructs you to open your case.* Removing a rifle from a case without being instructed to will be a match disqualification.* There will be no safety tables at this match.* Scores may or may not be available at the end of the match.* There will be no trophies or plaques this year.
Successful shooters will have good data from 20-500 yards and understand the effect of mechanical offset when making precise shot placements at relatively close distances.* They will have a good understanding of their capability with the equipment they choose to use and will be able to select and engage targets under time pressure based on that realistic assessment of their abilities.* They will be comfortable shooting from supported positions other than the prone.* They will be able to identify an assigned target in an array of similar targets.* They will apply strict muzzle discipline at all times.* The location of the firing position on several stages demands rigorous enforcement of the prohibition against the muzzle of a loaded rifle pointing above the backstop.* Violation of this rule on these stages will result in an immediate stage DQ.* No warnings will be given.* All of these skills will be performed on the clock, but an effort has been made to design a match that places a much higher value on accuracy than it does on time.* There will be maximum round limits for each stage.* Every round will count.* You will not be able to miss fast enough to win this match.* Ranges to all targets will be provided. Some stage details are still being finalized, but final round count will between 40 and 50.
*
The following are stage plans so far, which may be modified before the match begins.
Stage One - SH1 – choose your point value
Start with the rifle grounded and loaded with a maximum of 5 rounds with the bolt open and the shooter standing behind the rifle.
On the start signal attempt to score as many points as possible by engaging targets of your choice with five rounds only.* You may only hit any target only once, but you may use more than one round in an attempt to hit a target.* Maximum time will be 120 seconds.* Actual times will be recorded for tie breaking.* You will need to tell the stage range officer which target you are attempting for each shot.* You may not get credit for hits if the SRO does not know which target to watch.
*
Stage Two* - *Black Powder Ridge
Start at low ready with the rifle loaded with three rounds and the bolt open.
On the start signal advance to the barricade and engage each of the three visible steel targets with one round from one shoulder.* Move to the opposite side of the barricade, load 3 more rounds, and engage the three steel targets from the opposite shoulder.* The rifle must be empty when movement is commenced, and the bolt may not go forward until the rifle is resting on the barricade and the muzzle is pointed toward the target area.* Maximum time will be 90 seconds.
*
Stage Three* *- BigBore Range – Locate and terminate
Start in the shooting position with the rifle loaded with 4 rounds only and the bolt open.
The target arrays will be raised from the pits immediately prior to the start signal.* On the start signal engage your assigned targets at 200 and 300 rounds with one round each.* Par time will be 30 seconds.* This exercise will be shot twice, with two sets of targets, 8 rounds total, aggregate score and time.
Stage Four - *BigBore range – Mover
Start in shooting position loaded with 5 rounds only.* Engage mover as it appears for one pass out and one pass back.* Score is points scored on target.
*
Stage Five - Action Rifle range* - Eggs
Start standing with your unloaded rifle in one hand, 5 loose rounds in other hand
On the start signal, move to shooting position, load after muzzle is pointed at eggs and engage 5 eggs in sequence from either the left or right side of the array.* Eggs hit out of sequence will not count toward your score. *Each egg hit is 50 points.* You time in seconds is subtracted from your points. *Maximum time will be 120 seconds.*
Remain in shooting position on completion of the egg stage and wait for command to load for the next stage.
*
Stage Six* - Close-range Accuracy
On command, load your rifle with a maximum of 5 rounds.* On the start signal engage each of your numbered targets at each distance with one round each.* Your time in seconds will be subtracted from your score.* Maximum time will be 60 seconds.
--
Randy
*
*
"If your dog doesn't like somebody, you probably shouldn't either."
____________________________
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- 351
- Reactions
- 130
I have been using 55gr XM193, or PMC, or Hornady hand-loads: All have worked fine out several hundred meters. However, for match (and SHFT reliability/power) purposes I am switching to 69gr Sierra Match HPBT. I was considering 68gr Hornady HPBT (cheaper), but it's harder to find, AND I did a shooting test at 100 and 300 yards from my 20-inch-barrel AR (1-9 twist). I was looking for relative groups and overal performance. I also tried both standard CCI (#400) primers and #450 magnums.
Result: Even though I had previously zeroed with the 68gr Hdy, it grouped about 6 inches left at 100, 15 inches left (9 o'clock) at 300. The Sierra at least was on-line vertically (12 o'clock) at both 100 and 300. Between the magnum and standard primers, the standard gave best performance, providing the flattest trajectory. I hypothesize that the magnum caused too much powder to burn close to the chamber, where the standard primer allowed more uniform burning throughout the length of the barrel.
So, I am going with the Sierra 69gr HPBT for my common-use 5.56mm ammo: It shoots flatter, less vulnerable to wind, and has more force at distance. My PR purpose for 69 grain bullets also has to do with target effect: I have noticed that the 55 grain bullets don't make enough noise/movement on the gong-targets, and the RO's don't always note all the hits.
Regarding cleaning/not cleaning before a match: Shooting Gallery (Outdoor Channel, Wednesdays) had a recent segment put on by USAMU about "cold bore shots". The shooter demonstrated with a 7.62mm M24 rifle at 100 and 300 meters from a bench-rest, how a clean, cold barrel will shoot differently than a fouled cold bore. The first shot (clean/cold) outside the 10-ring at 100, but the following 4 shots were all on the X. Same result at 300. They let the barrel cool (without cleaning) for 24 hours before firing the "cold, fouled bore" shots.
IMHO: If you are firing corrosive black-powder (or cheap Russian ammo), maybe you need to clean your piece to prevent pitting/corrosion of the bore after each firing session. However, modern military-grade firearms using modern smokeless powder should NOT require cleaning between sessions. (The Army Reserve LTC whom I worked for last year in Afghanistan has a Glock 17 that he has had for 22 years, never cleaned & never a problem.) And yes, I have the military habit of thoroughly cleaning my firearms after firing, and periodically while in storage too. For accuracy purposes, maybe those "sighters" at the start of other types of matches make sense: Foul the barrels so they will shoot better.
Result: Even though I had previously zeroed with the 68gr Hdy, it grouped about 6 inches left at 100, 15 inches left (9 o'clock) at 300. The Sierra at least was on-line vertically (12 o'clock) at both 100 and 300. Between the magnum and standard primers, the standard gave best performance, providing the flattest trajectory. I hypothesize that the magnum caused too much powder to burn close to the chamber, where the standard primer allowed more uniform burning throughout the length of the barrel.
So, I am going with the Sierra 69gr HPBT for my common-use 5.56mm ammo: It shoots flatter, less vulnerable to wind, and has more force at distance. My PR purpose for 69 grain bullets also has to do with target effect: I have noticed that the 55 grain bullets don't make enough noise/movement on the gong-targets, and the RO's don't always note all the hits.
Regarding cleaning/not cleaning before a match: Shooting Gallery (Outdoor Channel, Wednesdays) had a recent segment put on by USAMU about "cold bore shots". The shooter demonstrated with a 7.62mm M24 rifle at 100 and 300 meters from a bench-rest, how a clean, cold barrel will shoot differently than a fouled cold bore. The first shot (clean/cold) outside the 10-ring at 100, but the following 4 shots were all on the X. Same result at 300. They let the barrel cool (without cleaning) for 24 hours before firing the "cold, fouled bore" shots.
IMHO: If you are firing corrosive black-powder (or cheap Russian ammo), maybe you need to clean your piece to prevent pitting/corrosion of the bore after each firing session. However, modern military-grade firearms using modern smokeless powder should NOT require cleaning between sessions. (The Army Reserve LTC whom I worked for last year in Afghanistan has a Glock 17 that he has had for 22 years, never cleaned & never a problem.) And yes, I have the military habit of thoroughly cleaning my firearms after firing, and periodically while in storage too. For accuracy purposes, maybe those "sighters" at the start of other types of matches make sense: Foul the barrels so they will shoot better.
