Practical Carbine Accuracy: Off the Bench and In the Field

[ATCclears]

Best quote: "If you can't do it with irons, don't bother with optics"

Practical Carbine Accuracy: Off the Bench and In the Field

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[Oathkeeper1775]

Good read.

 

[Koda]

is this good enough? (the tick marks are 1" apart...)

 

[Koda]

Best quote: "If you can't do it with irons, don't bother with optics"

I dont know... there's something about this quote that bothers me. I mean I get the sentiment, under ideal circumstances. But then that probably disqualifies the majority of riflemen out there and the rifle is supposed to be like the equalizer. The author talks about the practical use of the rifle for defense and I think its practical to set up your rifle the way it works best for the person. That might be an optic

Im just a layman though, maybe Im missing a point somewhere.

 

[Certaindeaf]

All fine and dandy but you're going to have a handgun on you when the flag flies, if you're lucky. Learn to shoot a handgun well.

 

[Oathkeeper1775]

Im just a layman though, maybe Im missing a point somewhere.

Ha! The "Laymen" were the Minute Men, the Green Mountain Boys, Mosby's and Roger's Rangers...
They kicked azz!

I think you got the point just fine sir; I agree with the basis of article...(don't want to go meta).

The AR platform isn't a single "acumen" design; it can do almost anything it is (properly) set up for.

But, the idea that small shot groups by themselves; over and over again, in canned training situations, is the "end-all".....that is my idea of a possible fallacy.

In the minds of a defender or attacker; training should be more about adapting to every (foreseeable) condition; the most practical, the most relevant, and the most difficult; although not for beginners, (iron sights, night, gas mask, ambidextrous, etc.)

Training in the most adverse conditions possible (then going advanced) usually turns out the most agile and capable fighters.

 

[Koda]

I do know nothing is as durable as irons and it would be a shame to not have the skills to fall back on those if needed. My rifle experience was always scoped for hunting, so it was fun to only use open sights for my defensive rifle. Its a different animal holding that front sight on a target at 100yds (what I think is called a "straight eight" sight picture) that 8x11 paper was almost buried by the front post somehow I managed to hold it steady and centered... I need to work on going out to 200yds next.
So I get the idea that everyone should know iron sights but man what a difference so much easier with a scope, I can see why some might skip irons all together. All things being equal I think optics have the advantage... at least until the battery runs out or they get knocked hard enough

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Iron sights or optics...its all a matter of practice until the actions become muscle memory.

With the "fixed" sights on my Hawken Rifle , I have hit a man sized silhouette
( The OD Green Army type target ) center mass at 200 yards often enough to give me the confidence that I could do the shot if it really mattered...
Will I get those small , tight groups with my Hawken that a fella with a scoped rifle will get at that range?...No...but a hit , a good hit can be made and bring home the deer or stop a threat , with either rifle , scope or iron sights , at that range with practice*

That confidence comes from using the same rifle and load for almost all my shooting now for 20 odd years in any weather , on any game animal I was hunting , at a many a different range distances.

Sure , use what you got , as the saying goes...but learn to use it well...
Andy
*Note to all ....
I will not take a "hunting shot" at 200 yards with my Hawken...Just nice to know that the historic accounts of muzzleloading rifles being used at the range and farther , can be done...

 

[CamoDeafie]

Best quote: "If you can't do it with irons, don't bother with optics"

Practical Carbine Accuracy: Off the Bench and In the Field

That actually depends on how good the irons are on whatever carbine.
My 995B Classic, its got 1-4× optic because its better for it, than the original chunky irons that covered an 8x11 paper at only 50 yards,(TS model got the better more finer, but taller front posts) but the AR15 I have, has A2 style irons, because they are that much more finer and better for it.

 

[Boboclown]

The problem with the quote is not everyone has good eyes. Some people can use iron sights well enough, but need a low-powered magnified optic to shoot better.

 

[DenimChicken]

I think everyone can agree, knowing how to use irons is a must and builds marksmanship fundamentals. That being said, I don't think anyone can argue that optics on a rifle can offer a great advantage. Learn how to use them both. Know the capabilities and limitations of your firearm.

 

[Diamondback]

Iron sights or optics...its all a matter of practice until the actions become muscle memory.

With the "fixed" sights on my Hawken Rifle , I have hit a man sized silhouette
( The OD Green Army type target ) center mass at 200 yards often enough to give me the confidence that I could do the shot if it really mattered...
Will I get those small , tight groups with my Hawken that a fella with a scoped rifle will get at that range?...No...but a hit , a good hit can be made and bring home the deer or stop a threat , with either rifle , scope or iron sights , at that range with practice*

That confidence comes from using the same rifle and load for almost all my shooting now for 20 odd years in any weather , on any game animal I was hunting , at a many a different range distances.

Sure , use what you got , as the saying goes...but learn to use it well...
Andy
*Note to all ....
I will not take a "hunting shot" at 200 yards with my Hawken...Just nice to know that the historic accounts of muzzleloading rifles being used at the range and farther , can be done...

Offtopic: Andy, you make me wish I wouldn't have to come all the way up to the Canadian border to share a range... because with your experience on both the One Way and Two Way Ranges, it would make your take on a hands-on trial with my little pet project invaluable. Too bad 594 says I can't head north, stop by and leave it with you and continue north while the GF's out to BC...

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Well why let the law get in the way of a little fun?....
( Just kidding )
Andy

 

[Diamondback]

The annoying part is that while the beast would dampen the GF's undies in a really good way... well, her country's authorities, it'd be the other kind in just as big a way. (You know you've got a keeper when she thinks Evil Politically Incorrect Guns are foreplay... )