Power Factor

[K-22]

Do any of the local clubs run speed steel matches where there are separate classes based on power factor? The folks that hand load "bunny fart" loads have a decided advantage over those that only have factory loads available.
Best,
Gary

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[Member 34319]

Do any of the local clubs run speed steel matches where there are separate classes based on power factor? The folks that hand load "bunny fart" loads have a decided advantage over those that only have factory loads available.
Best,
Gary

I'm pretty certain Tri County does for most of its pistol based competitions.

 

[NWGlockgal]

I'm pretty certain Tri County does for most of its pistol based competitions.

They don't for speed steel. I've also been to ARPC for their SS matches and they don't do power factor either. I personally wish it was eliminated in USPSA but I don't run the system.

 

[NWGlockgal]

Do any of the local clubs run speed steel matches where there are separate classes based on power factor? The folks that hand load "bunny fart" loads have a decided advantage over those that only have factory loads available.
Best,
Gary

A lot of people at SS use .22s, which eliminates the power factor game.

 

[Jeedia]

Both idpa and uspsa have a minimum power factor of 125. 380 is 95pf.

 

[Member 34319]

They don't for speed steel. I've also been to ARPC for their SS matches and they don't do power factor either. I personally wish it was eliminated in USPSA but I don't run the system.

Bummer.

Seems like clubs may want to consider involving power factor in speed steel.

@K-22 did you bring this up with the club?

I bet if more folks started pointing out that folks are loading silly slow FPS loads to mitigate recoil the club may take action.

Then again, I've only shot 22 speed steel thus far.

I would like to try it with PCC next.

 

[Jeedia]

Speed steel doesn't have pf on purpose. Most of the pros use bunny fart loads that barely cycle the gun.

 

[bbbass]

Speed steel doesn't have pf on purpose. Most of the pros use bunny fart loads that barely cycle the gun.

Hmmmm, that would seem to be, well, slow.

 

[spookshack]

Bummer.

Seems like clubs may want to consider involving power factor in speed steel.

@K-22 did you bring this up with the club?

I bet if more folks started pointing out that folks are loading silly slow FPS loads to mitigate recoil the club may take action.

Then again, I've only shot 22 speed steel thus far.

I would like to try it with PCC next.

IMHO, there is no need for a PF for Speed Steel. I shoot PPC-O. I routinely, place higher then most RFC-O shooter's and can hold my own with the top RFC-O shooter's most of the time. YMMV

 

[K-22]

IMHO, there is no need for a PF for Speed Steel. I shoot PPC-O. I routinely, place higher then most RFC-O shooter's and can hold my own with the top RFC-O shooter's most of the time. YMMV

Ok, here is a hypothetical.
Two shooters, each using a revolver (yes, a few of us old Fudds still use revolvers) that weigh 45 oz.

Shooter "A" is shooting factory .45acp, 230 grain fmj At approx. 850 FPS.
Shooter "B" is shooting 130 grain fmj handloads At approx 600 FPS.
On what planet is this a level playing field?
Best,
Gary

 

[41mag]

There's a group that yearns for another metric to control the rest of us uninterested in PF. If that data point makes a measureable difference in your OR my score, I can pretty much expect one of us is signed in with the wrong group.

In the SS I've competed, the top 5 or 10 may be separated by a few seconds.

The next 10 or 15 are maybe 20 seconds slower. The slowest 50% are 60-100 seconds down the xhart.

I can understand there's a group such might, MIGHT make a difference.

For the rest of us scoring fractions of a second in a typical match setting just doesn't contribute that much to an otherwise pleasurable hobby.

 

[Member 34319]

Ok, here is a hypothetical.
Two shooters, each using a revolver (yes, a few of us old Fudds still use revolvers) that weigh 45 oz.

Shooter "A" is shooting factory .45acp, 230 grain fmj At approx. 850 FPS.
Shooter "B" is shooting 130 grain fmj handloads At approx 600 FPS.
On what planet is this a level playing field?
Best,
Gary

From my reading online at various places, it's a known thing in speed steel, and those that are super competitive are loading as slow as possible to get faster times.

I'm kind of for power factor, but I get it. If speed steel doesn't come around to adopting a system like the rest, it will become more for handloading competitors that tweak loads to barely recoil.

So far from all I've read, it seams to be acceptable that there aren't restrictions and most are saying if you don't like it, shoot rimfire.

I'm indifferent. I'm no where near any level of some of the super competitive guys and gals, so I'm shooting more for fun then a plaque or trophy. I'm just happy when I here a ting after the bang.

 

[spookshack]

Do you have any experience shooting the above mentioned loads? If so, how much time do you think you are saving with the powder puff loads vs the heavier loads?

How fast are you from the holster? How light is your DA trigger? How fast is your trigger finger? How fast can you transition from target to target?

All the above veriables can add or subtract from overall times. One could spend days trying to level the playing field. It's just not practical to account for everything that could make a shooter shoot faster.

I'm not a sponsored or professional shooter (no do I play one on tv). I shoot Speed Steel solely for the fun factor and hanging out with a bunch of like minded individuals.

I have a S&W 15-22 and a 9mm AR carbine. They are both set up nearly identical. The .22 has no recoil and the AR-9 has a recoil impulse similar to that of a 223/5.56 AR. I'm hands down faster with the AR-9. How is that even possible?

Don't over think it. Just go shoot and have fun!

 

[K-22]

From my reading online at various places, it's a known thing in speed steel, and those that are super competitive are loading as slow as possible to get faster times.

I'm kind of for power factor, but I get it. If speed steel doesn't come around to adopting a system like the rest, it will become more for handloading competitors that tweak loads to barely recoil.

So far from all I've read, it seams to be acceptable that there aren't restrictions and most are saying if you don't like it, shoot rimfire.

I'm indifferent. I'm no where near any level of some of the super competitive guys and gals, so I'm shooting more for fun then a plaque or trophy. I'm just happy when I here a ting after the bang.

Games are fun. But if games can help hone my real world skills so much the better.
Do you know any one that loads their night stand gun or CCW firearm with "bunny fart" loads?
Best,
Gary

 

[Member 34319]

Do you have any experience shooting the above mentioned loads? If so, how much time do you think you are saving with the powder puff loads vs the heavier loads?

How fast are you from the holster? How light is your DA trigger? How fast is your trigger finger? How fast can you transition from target to target?

All the above veriables can add or subtract from overall times. One could spend days trying to level the playing field. It's just not practical to account for everything that could make a shooter shoot faster.

I'm not a sponsored or professional shooter (no do I play one on tv). I shoot Speed Steel solely for the fun factor and hanging out with a bunch of like minded individuals.

I have a S&W 15-22 and a 9mm AR carbine. They are both set up nearly identical. The .22 has no recoil and the AR-9 has a recoil impulse similar to that of a 223/5.56 AR. I'm hands down faster with the AR-9. How is that even possible?

Don't over think it. Just go shoot and have fun!

Good post.

I've got no experience. I recently got into it and like you do it for the enjoyment factor.

Games are fun. But if games can help hone my real world skills so much the better.
Do you know any one that loads their night stand gun or CCW firearm with "bunny fart" loads?
Best,
Gary

Perhaps speed steel or any competitive shooting isn't for you. If you're training for life use, train via training for that type of stuff.

Shocker, some folks are plainly recreational shooters and enjoy recreational shooting for game and sport.

 

[spookshack]

There are plenty of shooters that do SS at TCGC that do not care about their times and being competitive. They will show up and run their carry gun and there is nothing wrong with that. It can be a good way practice things like draw stroke and shooting multiple targets in rapid succession with the added pressure of being "on the clock".

Now are there other shooting sports that are better suited to defensive work? Of course, but if Speed Steel is the only option for whatever reason, I'm all for someone coming out to the range and getting some type of live fire trigger time regardless if SS is not the most optimal choice.

 

[BDA.45]

I personally have always shot factory loads. I'm still competitive. As mentioned above, hows your draw stroke? How are your transitions? Hows your trigger work? Those types of things are what I personally work on. If you need a timer some weekend to help you out while practicing, lemme know. I'll lend mine out....

 

[K-22]

There are plenty of shooters that do SS at TCGC that do not care about their times and being competitive. They will show up and run their carry gun and there is nothing wrong with that. It can be a good way practice things like draw stroke and shooting multiple targets in rapid succession with the added pressure of being "on the clock".

I, am competitive. Just the nature of the beast.
Guess this is sort of like fast cars. You can build it, or buy it.

Best,
Gary

 

[spookshack]

@Reno911 when you get your new toy all done, you have to come out and shoot a SS match with us (@Meridian7750, @NWGlockgal, and @RicInOR and myself).

 

[K-22]

@Reno911 when you get your new toy all done, you have to come out and shoot a SS match with us

All done? It was all done when I bought it.
A box stock 625 5" S&W.

Best,
Gary