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Powder burn mark on case

Discussion in 'Ammunition & Reloading' started by FA9, Oct 28, 2013.

  1. FA9

    FA9 Hillsburrito, ORgun Well-Known Member

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    What is causing this? Somebody told me not enough crimp, but I'm pretty sure its crimped properly. This is 45acp using titegroup. I tried different (185-230gn.) bullets and powder charges and am still getting this mark.

    358djjm.jpg
     
  2. rgold1963

    rgold1963 Washington State Active Member

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    More info would help..... Do you see this with factory ammo? What velocities are you getting with your reloads? How many grains TG with the 230gr bullet? Have you measured the case mouth after crimping and if so, what did it read? Gun fired out of?

    Ron
     
  3. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf SE Portland Well-Known Member

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    It sure as heck isn't crimp. They headspace on the case mouth and a FCD actually lessens neck tension. Neck tension is more likely.. you might have to watch your bell setting and or reduce the diameter of your flaring stud and if you're not flaring at all, neck tension is affected by brass, sizing die, bullet diameter and other things.
    Also, It looks like a gallery load with that powder meaning it's not expanding the brass fully upon ignition . Many powders burn dirty with light to medium loads.
     
  4. XSubSailor

    XSubSailor SW WA Active Member

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    Looks like light loading to me...not enough cartridge pressure to seal the bore against blowback.
     
  5. Misternt

    Misternt Salem Area Active Member

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    I've seen this with some lighter loads of mine. Loading just a bit more leaves em clean.
     
  6. FA9

    FA9 Hillsburrito, ORgun Well-Known Member

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    -I haven't shot factory ammo in years, but from what I remember, nope.
    -I don't know about velocity I dont have a chrono.
    -This case I think I shot a 200gn lswc w/5.4gn TG.
    -.469
    -1911

    Hmm I was told about light loads will do this. I have shot 200gn lswc with TG from 4.3 - 5.5 with the same powder burn effect. Also when I first started to load lead boolits my flare was set for plated bullets so it was kinda tight, then I read that when loading lead, I needed a wider flare so in my case flare didn't do anything.
     
  7. rgold1963

    rgold1963 Washington State Active Member

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    Looking at the load data, it would seem that those should be high enough to not have low pressure be the problem. I saw this on my .45 with certain loads and checked my crimp diameter and increased it to .473. The rounds still drop into my case gauge and barrel just fine and I don't have this issue at all even with lower powered loads. You might want to try a little less crimp and see if the rounds chamber ok.

    Ron
     
  8. FA9

    FA9 Hillsburrito, ORgun Well-Known Member

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    .473? Hmm I guess I'll have to try, I can see why this would probably work. I flare at .471 (no crimp) and it drops fine in my barrel snug fit, so it kinda creates a seal. Makes perfect sense, I just hope it works. I'm getting tired of scrubbing the chamber...
     
  9. PX4WA

    PX4WA Tacoma, WA Active Member

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    Could be wet or old powder? You are not burning all of the powder... in a perfect world there would be no unburnt powder...

    The powder may be suspect.. try a different bottle
     
  10. saxon

    saxon springfield Active Member

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    might also help to know what brand 1911 as it could also be the barrle because if it a good barrle but bad seating it should be almost even all the way around not in just a spot
     
  11. Velzey

    Velzey Estacada, Oregon Gunsmith Gunsmith Bronze Vendor Bronze Supporter

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    I have had marks like that for years. For my go to plinking load is a 185gr lead SWC with 3.5 grains of Bullseye. 3.5 is a little light, but nice for plinking. If I load it to 4.5 grains the carbon marks go away and I have clean brass.
     
  12. noylj

    noylj high desert Active Member

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    Ahh, TiteGroup--the oxy-acetyline of gun powders.
    1) Low pressure. Case didn't expand to seal the chamber. Usually though, if you don't use a welding torch powder, you will only have some light gray soot on the case.
    If somehow these are NOT low pressure, then determine what strange combination is keeping the cases from sealing the chamber, because we would like to know.
    2)As mentioned, on of the hottest burning powders.
    Personally, I prefer 231/HP38, AA2, Bullseye, Red Dot, Solo 1000, N320, Competition, Zip, Am. Select, or almost any other powder other than TiteGroup or Clays for .45, but that is just me.
     
  13. safooma

    safooma Oregon Member

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    My .45 loads look very similar with titegroup...I always assumed it was just a characteristic of titegroup being a bit dirty. I have put 1000s through my sr1911 and my hipoint 45 without issue.

    Edit: Loads are 230gr Berrys plated RN over 4.6 gr of titegroup
     
  14. usagi

    usagi Redmond Well-Known Member

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    classic case of insufficient pressure to seal the brass against the chamber.
     
  15. safooma

    safooma Oregon Member

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    Interesting. I will up the load a bit and see if it improves.
     
  16. FA9

    FA9 Hillsburrito, ORgun Well-Known Member

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    Def. not wet/old. I will try a different bottle.



    This is happening in a RIA and a sr1911



    Tried using w231 with same results. 5.1 gn. behind 230gn plated bullet.



    Shoots fine, I just hate cleaning the chamber.



    I crimped as tight as .467 with different powder charges still same results.
     
  17. usagi

    usagi Redmond Well-Known Member

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    try factory ammo. may be an oversize chamber.
     
  18. saxon

    saxon springfield Active Member

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    if it was JUST the RIA i would say bad chamber but if its on the sr1911 as well i would say its the load
    you say you
    you should be going lighter not tighter
    chamber is or should be 474 so you should have a light "crimp"
    http://www.m1911.org/M1911-A1_REDUX.pdf
    the factory Neck diameter on factory ball ammo is or should be .473 in (12.0 mm)
     
  19. wichaka

    wichaka Wa State Well-Known Member

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    Turn the case around so we can get a look at the primer strike.