potential problem with well respected local gunsmith

[Connor Murphy]

.....................And, He never wears pants

Dang, he was wearin pants when I dropped my gear off. Guess I caught him on a good day.

 

[Goosebrown]

Dang, he was wearin pants when I dropped my gear off. Guess I caught him on a good day.

Or a bad one depending...

 

[Velzey]

Legend has it @Velzey taught John Moses Browning everything he knew

He was my great grandpappy!
He also taught me the no pants while smithing, only shortpants allowed

 

[F2CMaDMaXX]

Alarmingly scary thought.......

 

[11Charlie]

Hardly anyone is quite as, um memeorable as you are my friend

I was just thinking the same thing! SK could probably go toe to toe with a Big "Ol Colorado Grizzly, and the Grizz would be lookin at his claws and for arms askin if he REALLY wants to try his luck!

HAHAHAHA You guys crack me up!!

 

[nammac]

i'm right there with ya Skrueger, BUT.............
If I had walked in to this shop expecting to pick up my finished rifle and noticed an issue like this, I would have handed it right back and asked what he was going to do to fix it and make it right, and when I could expect to return to pick it up, once completed!!!
I had something like this happen at a car repair shop, Took my Mercedes in for some work and when I came to pick it up, there was a huge dent in the passenger door!!! Wasn't there when I dropped it off, and there was no explanation made or offer of repair, UNTIL I walked my onesome into the service managers office and asked him what HE, HIM SELF was going to do about it?!?!?! Got some positive action then, but they were not going to do it on their own if I had not lit a fire under there azzess! Short story long, I will never take any of my cars to them EVER, and I tell every one I know, Not to do business with these people!!!

I've had a similar experience, the wife's van when in for warranty work on the rear entertainment system, when I went to pick it up, the rear bumper had been all scratched up from muddy boots, debris and footprints still on an otherwise clean van...

Marched myself into the service managers office, explained to him the damage I found and that this is basically a brand new vehicle with less than 3k miles on it... His initial response was, are you sure it happened here?

After an intense conversation about professionalism and responsibility, they sent it out to be detailed inside and out, returning to me a vehicle in the same showroom condition I had brought to them for service.

Bottom line, they did the right thing, but not without me pushing the issue... Unfortunately, they broke my trust...

Always treat people's property with more care than the owner would exercise...

 

[Goosebrown]

HAHAHAHA You guys crack me up!!

When we're talking about @Velzey smithing with no pants, please don't say "crack"

 

[ageingstudent]

He was my great grandpappy!
He also taught me the no pants while smithing, only shortpants allowed

I have a feeling some of us are going to be paying a lot more for our next repair...

This thread is trending at the top of the list. It will probably end up in the next newsletter.

@Ura-Ki started it. Just sayin'.
(I appreciate the humor it's been a rough week)

 

[shibbershabber]

Well, unfortunately... Hes not interested in making it right.

Insinuating that it was no big deal and i am overreacting.


***********************************************
***********************************************

His response:

Hi Brian - Don't confuse tool marks with damage. If the rifle were damaged it wouldn't work. Your rifle will. Attempting to make it disappear will result in worse pictures. As I suggested, if you decide to Duracoat the entire rifle then the marks will be removed.

Please let me know. I'm willing to reduce the standard Duracoat fee by 25% due to the marks. Thanks for your understanding.


My response to that:

Lets not get into semantics. What you consider damage may be rendering something inoperable, to me, in this case, it means adversely altering something from its original form. I understand that this firearm will still function for its intended purpose of sending projectiles towards a target.

What my concern is that these "tool marks" have altered the surface of an otherwise flawless receiver. These tool marks are noticeable to the naked eye and affect the aesthetics of the gun, and therefore negatively affecting the value of the gun both to me and to future resale value.

These "tool marks" were caused by an act of negligence on your part, which you have previously admitted.

So what this boils down to is that I brought you a rifle to have a barrel swapped, what I received was a rifle that had received superficial damages which affect the appearance and value of my firearm... something that one wouldn't normally consider to be acceptable when taking a firearm to a professional gunsmith.

If I had done this myself or taken it to my buddy's garage to do... that's one thing. To have this happen in the hands of a well respected, professional gunsmith is another.

Furthermore, you realized this mistake and made attempts to cover it, which you stated in an earlier email... but you did NOT inform me of this ahead of time though you were certainly aware of it during our conversations regarding the muzzle brake and form of payment.
It also appeared that you were not intending to tell me about this at pickup... since it only came up when you saw me run my finger across the affected area... even then not even as much as offering an apology.

Again, Ill remind you that this was due to your own negligence, which you admitted.

Say I'm painting your house... I normally cover up cars when spraying, but this one time I didn't and I over sprayed your car. Me, being a professional contractor, you would expect me to take necessary precautions to protect your property at all times, right? Suppose after spraying your car, I told you that its only superficial and that your car is still driveable... and I gave you a couple of free car wash coupons. How would you react?

So your trying to pass this off as tool marks... as if it is normal and nothing to worry about... is ridiculous. Then, only after my complaint, you offer me %25 off of a Duracoat job, which is already priced %25 higher than every other gunsmith in town???


This was my first time using a gunsmith... but I'm pretty sure this isn't how its supposed to go.

Is this really how you're going to leave it?

*******************************************
*******************************************

So, at this point, Im not interested in protecting his identity, even if he makes it right later.... his responses I think speak for themselves.

It was Clark County Gunsmithing.

Is this who some of you suspected it was?

 

[Velzey]

Let's get something straight, that is not a "professional gunsmith" work. Jon @NWCustomFirearms and myself have pretty much the same view on almost everything. We chatted about this "blemish" and talked about how to fix it. Neither of us would have put it on the customer to pay for..no way never.. just not our way to do business.

A professional would never return a customers firearm with damage like that.
A professional would not offer a 25% discount to hide the damage done by him.

 

[nammac]

Well, this thread has been very enlightening and educational...

I've learned one gunsmithing service to stay away from, far away from.

And I've learned of two that are professional,!responsible and worthy of receiving our business...

 

[ZigZagZeke]

This goes for more than just your trade... any kind of human interaction is aplicable. Your reputation is everything.
My father had a small business, and refused to sell any products he wouldn't own himself. and stood by every sell beyond the warranty. He taught me the importance of honesty in dealing with others, and how it may cost you in the short term, but in the long term it will come back many times over.
Something simple as returning a tool for example... I used a neighbors carpet cleaner. He hadn't cleaned it since he used it last, but I retuned it clean inside and out, and I even replaced the cord end that was missing the ground prong. After that, he would joke that I needed to borrow this or that because in needed some TLC.

I expect honesty, quality workmanship, qualimerchandise, and courtesy from anybody I deal with, and I won't give any less in return because wether or not you believe in Karma.. It's a good way to live.

Unfortunately to many the golden rule of do unto others, now ends with "before they do it to you" instead of "as you would have them do unto you".

Part of the marina business in which I was a partner, and where I worked as the GM included a rental houseboat fleet. A family was coming 600 miles for a houseboat they had reserved for 2 pm that day, and at 10 am the previous renter calls and says he's blown up the engine. The family is due to pick up the boat for a week of vacation. We are booked solid. I have no boat to give them. I did some quick footwork and when they arrived I explained the situation. I told them I didn't have a boat for them, but I did have a free deluxe hotel suite at a nearby resort. I handed them a week's worth of tickets to the local theme park, and evening shows. I told them I was comping their meals at the hotel, and that they would have use of one of our rental ski boats every day from noon to 8 pm. Their jaws hit the pavement. We lost $1000 in rental fees, and we spent about $3000 for the free vacation, but the next season they were back and their friends and neighbors reserved boats as well. We got probably $30,000 in advertising and good will out of what some people would have counted as a loss. It pays to do right by your customers.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

i'm right there with ya Skrueger, BUT.............
If I had walked in to this shop expecting to pick up my finished rifle and noticed an issue like this, I would have handed it right back and asked what he was going to do to fix it and make it right, and when I could expect to return to pick it up, once completed!!!
I had something like this happen at a car repair shop, Took my Mercedes in for some work and when I came to pick it up, there was a huge dent in the passenger door!!! Wasn't there when I dropped it off, and there was no explanation made or offer of repair, UNTIL I walked my onesome into the service managers office and asked him what HE, HIM SELF was going to do about it?!?!?! Got some positive action then, but they were not going to do it on their own if I had not lit a fire under there azzess! Short story long, I will never take any of my cars to them EVER, and I tell every one I know, Not to do business with these people!!!

Had to be the Eugene dealership.

 

[shibbershabber]

What really sucks is that I actually talked to Jon @NWCustomFirearms about this very project............

But ended up at CCG because it was closer to work, because I wanted to be lazy... now look at me.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

Wow! Open 3 days a week and operating out of somebody's residence? That should have been a clue right there. Also, I don't like people who deliver ultimatums in the advertising.

 

[Alexx1401]

I think you're handling this quite well good for you. Just a word of support and encouragement .

The OP is showing a lot more patience than I would at this point.

 

[Alexx1401]

Well, unfortunately... Hes not interested in making it right.

Insinuating that it was no big deal and i am overreacting.


<snip>


This was my first time using a gunsmith... but I'm pretty sure this isn't how its supposed to go.

Is this really how you're going to leave it?

*******************************************
*******************************************

So, at this point, Im not interested in protecting his identity, even if he makes it right later.... his responses I think speak for themselves.

It was Clark County Gunsmithing.

Is this who some of you suspected it was?

I had not seen this yet. So now i'm glad you outed him. I will make sure anyone I know will NEVER set foot in his place as he is obviously at best sloppy and at worst incompetent.

 

[Alexx1401]

Part of the marina business in which I was a partner, and where I worked as the GM included a rental houseboat fleet. A family was coming 600 miles for a houseboat they had reserved for 2 pm that day, and at 10 am the previous renter calls and says he's blown up the engine. The family is due to pick up the boat for a week of vacation. We are booked solid. I have no boat to give them. I did some quick footwork and when they arrived I explained the situation. I told them I didn't have a boat for them, but I did have a free deluxe hotel suite at a nearby resort. I handed them a week's worth of tickets to the local theme park, and evening shows. I told them I was comping their meals at the hotel, and that they would have use of one of our rental ski boats every day from noon to 8 pm. Their jaws hit the pavement. We lost $1000 in rental fees, and we spent about $3000 for the free vacation, but the next season they were back and their friends and neighbors reserved boats as well. We got probably $30,000 in advertising and good will out of what some people would have counted as a loss. It pays to do right by your customers.

Now that is another example of how to do it right. Sure you're out 4K short term. How many people did this family tell about the fantastic treatment they got? You can bet you gained not only them as return customers but others they told this story too for years. Where as OTOH this so called Smith is going to have a lot of people avoiding him like a disease now. When people like this go out of business they always have a string of excuses as to why. Of course they will never admit the real problem was them. There is nothing to be gained by shafting people or treating them badly just because you can.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Look at the bright side. At least he didn't charge you for "custom file work" and a bottle of cold blue. lol

ouch. I'd be livid

 

[etrain16]

Part of the marina business in which I was a partner, and where I worked as the GM included a rental houseboat fleet. A family was coming 600 miles for a houseboat they had reserved for 2 pm that day, and at 10 am the previous renter calls and says he's blown up the engine. The family is due to pick up the boat for a week of vacation. We are booked solid. I have no boat to give them. I did some quick footwork and when they arrived I explained the situation. I told them I didn't have a boat for them, but I did have a free deluxe hotel suite at a nearby resort. I handed them a week's worth of tickets to the local theme park, and evening shows. I told them I was comping their meals at the hotel, and that they would have use of one of our rental ski boats every day from noon to 8 pm. Their jaws hit the pavement. We lost $1000 in rental fees, and we spent about $3000 for the free vacation, but the next season they were back and their friends and neighbors reserved boats as well. We got probably $30,000 in advertising and good will out of what some people would have counted as a loss. It pays to do right by your customers.

Sounds right to me!

When I was about 16/17, I stopped by during the summer to visit my father at the office he was working in at the time (an electrical contractor). He was on his way to a meeting and asked me to come along, something he hadn't done before. I had the day off work, so I decided to tag along. We ended up in downtown PDX and headed up near the top of one of the office buildings. As we were headed there, he told me he was about to get his azz chewed out because their company, his workers, had made a big mistake, one that was going to be costly to fix, and he was going to meet the executives for the company they had made the mistake with. At that point I was wondering why I was even there, and getting uncomfortable.

We entered a board room with a large table. All the executives were there - 3 piece suits, all at one end of the table, leaving the other end wide open, for my father and me. My father was also in a 3-piece suit - me, I was in jeans and a t-shirt - very out of place. The executives asked who I was and why I was there, my father explained that I was his son and he had asked me to sit in on this meeting.

As the meeting got started, there was obvious tension in the room. Looking back on it now, it was clear they were ready for a fight. Arms crossed, stern looks, all gathered together so they could attack as a group. My father sat alone (me near) against them. I didn't know what to expect and was getting more and more uncomfortable in this room filled with intimidating people. They gave a brief introduction and went to start the meeting. As they were about to start, my father politely interrupted and asked if he might be allowed to speak first, which they granted.

What happened next is my father teaching me a lesson I have never forgotten to this day. I watched as he began his statement by saying "we screwed up, badly, and we have no excuses for what happened". He went on to say they were taking full responsibility for the mistake and would take care of the issue at no charge to this customer. He also said they would cover any costs/damages caused by their mistake to other trades that may have been impacted. In a matter of just a couple of minutes, those scary looking executives had smiles on their faces and the tension in the room was gone. They never even got to say/had to say their piece about this. The problem was solved, just like that. When it came time to leave, they all shook his hand and mine and thanked us for coming.

On the way back, I asked what happened. His crew had messed up on an installation - he didn't mess up, they did, but he took it as if he had made the mistake himself. He shared with me how he handles these types of situations, he admits the mistake, doesn't take a defensive stance and fixes it - to the customers' satisfaction, not his own. He also anticipates what they will say before he goes into the meeting. He knew in his mind what they would likely say and/or ask of him during that meeting and was fully prepared no matter which way it went. And by taking me that day, he taught me a lesson that I don't know I would have gotten otherwise. And so I put it in my mind to try and work to become like that. Unfortunately, it was easier said than done, and I had to learn some of those lessons myself as well, but that day stuck in my head, and still does today.

Now, 30 years later, I use that same tactic in my own business dealings. If I, or a worker I supervise, makes a mistake, I own up to it and I make sure we make it right, to the customer's satisfaction. It sometimes comes at a temporary loss, but my customers come back, time after time, because they know they will be treated right. People make mistakes, it happens, but the folks you want to work with are not the ones that don't make mistakes (they don't exist) but those that own up to it and will make it right by you.

As for that incident with my father, that customer became a regular customer for the company he worked for. The next jobs, they went straight to them and continued on with them for years.



To the OP - sorry about this, but you're probably going to save a few folks from the hassle of dealing with this guy down the road. Sorry to see he's unwilling to spend a little of his own money to show he's a standup guy, but would rather fight a customer on a mistake HE made. That's bad business, no matter what anyone does for a living, that will cost you far more than fixing your mistake. Word gets around, about the good and the bad. He will likely lose business over this, and probably won't even know why.