Potential first BP firearm

[TTSX]

I want it to shoot round balls, I suppose that's the main thing. Consider me completely uneducated on the subject but willing and eager to learn

 

[Andy54Hawken]

I want it to shoot round balls, I suppose that's the main thing. Consider me completely uneducated on the subject but willing and eager to learn

lead round balls can be shot from :
Muskets...
Rifles...
And in some cases , with good accuracy from rifled muskets.

Most arms that are rifled and made for round ball have a slow twist :
1-48
1-56
1-66
1-72
Being popular and good choices here.

Flintlocks are very fun...but...
Most of the shelf models , have issues....unless you are getting a custom gun...I'd suggest starting off with a percussion firearm.

What are you wanting to do with this firearm...?
Hunt...
Rendezvous "toy"...
Target shoot...
Is being historically accurate needed...
Andy

 

[tac]

Andy has just backed me up there - start with percussion...

 

[Andy54Hawken]

I do agree wholeheartedy with tac...
Start with percussion....learn the basics , get good with the same...then move to flintlocks.
Andy

 

[TTSX]

The idea, as with many of my guns, is for fun. No specific purpose. Historical accuracy would be nice but I doubt I'd know any difference. Any brands/models in specific, guys? Additional required equipment?

 

[tac]

The idea, as with many of my guns, is for fun. No specific purpose. Historical accuracy would be nice but I doubt I'd know any difference. Any brands/models in specific, guys? Additional required equipment?

Additional equipment required?

Lots and lots, the gun is only half the fun.

Are you going to cast - as and when you get into it, of course? Start off buying other people's efforts, and then you can get into the casting yourself for about a tenth of the cost of store-bought.

Since you are not into the HC/PC recreation part of shooting guns like this, you will be spared the cost of all that 'crude, old-fashioned and roughly-made garb' that suddenly adds up to thousands of dollars, unless you or your SO are handy with sewing needle

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Some good first rifle suggestions :
Lyman Great Plains rifle in .50 or 54 caliber...
Used Thompson Center "Hawken" rifle in .50 or .54 caliber...
The various Pedersoli Military rifled muskets and rifles...
Pedersoli "Tryon Rifle"...
Used Parker Hale rifled Muskets...
Andy

 

[tac]

The very best of them all, and by a long way, is the GENUINE Parker-Hale P53 three-band rifle. The Pedersoli version has been sh**-canned on numerous sites for its 'approximate' assembly and QC, and for north of $1300 that just ain't right. Even more if your name is Lassie, in which case it's almost $10K in dog dollars.

It is a MINIÉ bullet shooter, and NOT a ball shooter, and while it may work tolerably well with a ball, it is not a happy gun. Sure, you'll pay a premium, but then it was, and still is, a premium arm. Mine was bought new in 1974, and looks maybe five years old.

Serial numbers of GENUINE made-totally-in-England P-H guns of all kinds run up to 9000. After that, they were sold out to Euroarms, who used the barrels - ready proofed - and various other bits, until they ALL ran out at 14000 or so, ??Anything after that is totally Italian-made.

 

[Longbeard]

So I've looked at BP firearms in the past, and have not been able to close a deal. However I've always been fascinated by the cap and ball revolvers.

Unfortunately for me I like the looks of the brass framed "navy" replicas. Yet I hear of all sorts of warnings to stay away from them. I can understand that they would be weaker than the steel framed versions but are they really that bad if you are careful with your loads?

As I haven't owned a functional BP firearm before I will have to kit myself out, does anybody know of a good supply store where I can get most this stuff near the Tacoma area?

If you are commuted to a revolver I say "go with it". However for a first BP arm I always recommend a .50 cal rifle
in percussion cap. Why? If your only access to balls, caps, powder, etc. is a Big box store they typically only stock
.50 because it is the most popular. Otherwise everything is mail order through Track of the Wolf, Possibles shop,
etc. And .50 is a minimum for hunting some species but check your local laws if you wish to hunt.

Blessings,
LB

 

[Longbeard]

Yes, it IS normal for that era - men actually had smaller hands, as well as averaging only around 5ft 9in as well. The one BP-era revolver that fitted my hand right away was the Spiller & Burr, which had a grip not far off that of a standard K-frame Smith & Wesson.

The Ruger Blackhawk, being a revolver made in the modern era, had/has a much larger grip than most BP revolvers.

I once worked out the height of an average Roman soldier by back calculating 1000 steps in a Roman mile
LB

 

[DunRanull]

I once worked out the height of an average Roman soldier by back calculating 1000 steps in a Roman mile
LB

Do tell? Waiting with bated breath...

 

[MarshalChillN]

Is the Crazy Crow mail order store still in business? It is/was a wealth of knowledge for the BP shooter and had all the stuff needed to keep you supplied !!!

 

[tac]

@OP - your avatar says you live in Western Oregon - there is only ONE place you'll ever need to go for everything you'll ever need - The Gun works in Springfield, two minutes off the I5.

Tell Joe and Suzi I sent you and you'll get looked after like the prodigal son.

 

[tac]

I once worked out the height of an average Roman soldier by back calculating 1000 steps in a Roman mile LB

You should have ended up with an average height of around 5ft 5-6in. In the Welsh language, the word for mile is 'milltir' - a thousand steps. It is obviously derived from the Latin, as are a lot of Welsh words.

 

[Longbeard]

Do tell? Waiting with bated breath...

I'm doing this from memory decades ago. I think I got 5'6"-5'7" I can't even remember why I calculated it. I'm
6'0" and my stride is 3', I used that to great advantage when measuring square footage when writing construction
& maintenance quotes.

LB

 

[Longbeard]

You should have ended up with an average height of around 5ft 5-6in. In the Welsh language, the word for mile is 'milltir' - a thousand steps. It is obviously derived from the Latin, as are a lot of Welsh words.

I have some Welsh blood; from the Marches or Powys, ...The northern end of Ofa's dyke. That's about as I can get.

LB

 

[tac]

Ah, a Wrexham Boy, then.

 

[gmerkt]

I have plans of a second round of black powder revolver shooting. In 1969-70, I had a Navy Arms .36 revolver that I shot, then later traded away. Haven't done BP since then.

A couple of years ago, I was buying out some estate stuff and got a chance at BP revolvers again. I bought three revolvers and associated equipment for $200. One was a Colt 1860 replica, the other two were Remington 1858 replicas. A guy I know got wind of this and wanted me to sell him one. I took all three over and said, "Take your pick." He bought one of the Rems for $100.

These are ASM or Armi San Marcos brand. I'm gonna beat you all to it, yes I know that ASM is the American Motors of BP, in other words, dogs. I checked the date codes on these, they were made in the 1980's. Yes, they are brass frames. BUT, at now having $50 apiece in them, for occasional shooting they should be okay. After two years, I have yet to get out and fire them but dry handling them and disassembled for inspection they seem like they will shoot. The Rem. appears unfired.



Most of this stuff came with the revolvers. I've added the two bottles of BP, a couple of tins of caps and one pack of lubed felt wads but the rest was already there.



Questions:

Are the lubed felt wads as good as greasing the ball after seating?

Way back in 1969-70, I used a product called "Beare Grease" (brand name) for grease. I can't find any reference to it online now, must be long gone out of business. Somewhere I read that mink oil (really a paste) can be used, which I have a can of. Is mink oil really appropriate? It's relatively costly but mine came from the Goodwill for 49 cents a pound so in this case price is no problem..

Two margarine cups of projectiles came with. One, round balls weighing 140 gr. Another, round nose, flat based bullet weighing 200 gr. The latter aren't intended to be fired in these things are they?

I see in a post above, moderate BP charge of 20 grains for ".44" revolver. The bottle of Pyrodex came with, same charge weight? I'm not sure I trust the Pyrodex due to age, that's why I bought the new BP.

Thanks.

 

[tac]

I have plans of a second round of black powder revolver shooting. In 1969-70, I had a Navy Arms .36 revolver that I shot, then later traded away. Haven't done BP since then.

A couple of years ago, I was buying out some estate stuff and got a chance at BP revolvers again. I bought three revolvers and associated equipment for $200. One was a Colt 1860 replica, the other two were Remington 1858 replicas. A guy I know got wind of this and wanted me to sell him one. I took all three over and said, "Take your pick." He bought one of the Rems for $100.

These are ASM or Armi San Marcos brand. I'm gonna beat you all to it, yes I know that ASM is the American Motors of BP, in other words, dogs. I checked the date codes on these, they were made in the 1980's. Yes, they are brass frames. BUT, at now having $50 apiece in them, for occasional shooting they should be okay. After two years, I have yet to get out and fire them but dry handling them and disassembled for inspection they seem like they will shoot. The Rem. appears unfired.

View attachment 625843

Most of this stuff came with the revolvers. I've added the two bottles of BP, a couple of tins of caps and one pack of lubed felt wads but the rest was already there.

View attachment 625844

Questions:

Are the lubed felt wads as good as greasing the ball after seating?

Way back in 1969-70, I used a product called "Beare Grease" (brand name) for grease. I can't find any reference to it online now, must be long gone out of business. Somewhere I read that mink oil (really a paste) can be used, which I have a can of. Is mink oil really appropriate? It's relatively costly but mine came from the Goodwill for 49 cents a pound so in this case price is no problem..

Two margarine cups of projectiles came with. One, round balls weighing 140 gr. Another, round nose, flat based bullet weighing 200 gr. The latter aren't intended to be fired in these things are they?

I see in a post above, moderate BP charge of 20 grains for ".44" revolver. The bottle of Pyrodex came with, same charge weight? I'm not sure I trust the Pyrodex due to age, that's why I bought the new BP.

Thanks.

I'm going to work on your post backwards, since that's the way my mind functions.

For a brass-frame .44cal, 20gr of anything is reasonable, and bearing in mind that you are going to measure this load volumetrically, use the same measure for the Pyrodex. BTW, P is for pistol and is the same as FFFg/3Fg Black Powder. Because Pyrodex is less dense, the charge will weigh less, but don't let it fool ya. BY WEIGHT Pyrodex is 10% lighter than the equal grade of BP. Triple 7 is around 10% more vigorous than the same weight of BP of the same grade. Pyrodex doesn't mind a little compression - according to the maker's handbook, Triple 7 does not.

RB in .44cal ARE around 140gr or so. The conicals ARE about 200gr, so all is well. BUT, loading conicals, unless you have a relieved chamber mouth, is a RPITA, and unless you are after hogs at 10 yards with stocious loads that would rattle your brass-framed pistol to components in short order, my advice to you is to melt them down and make more ball.

I've been shooting BP handguns since the late 1960's, and I've tried everything you can think of to keep the crud soft, which is really why you put something over either the powder or the ball. I've ended up using a filler over the end of the chamber, not just any filler, but a water-based skin cream called E45 over here. When you clean up the gun, it takes the crud with it.

 

[Red98422]

@gmerkt definately jealous of the score!

Looks like you have nearly everything you need with it too. Should be a hell of a good time!